JaaShooUhh

Try a newer version like Winlator 11

So I wanted to start a somewhat controversial topic, not as a means to actually cause problems, but to see if anyone else is willing to honestly engage on these. Over the years of being in the MUGEN community, I have noticed a lot of content being liked and disliked, supported and rejected. These vary from person to person, but at the same time, there does seem to be a general agreement on most of these, and I wanted to give my take, as well as read what everyone else thinks. ===SPRITESWAPPING=== Now this one seems to be an open and shut case. Taking someone else's work (especially without crediting them) and reusing it, is messed up. However, at the same time, I also think that it is SOMETIMES acceptable under certain conditions. These conditions being the following: 1. That the source of the swap is credited and that the swapper informs everyone that "their work" is in fact, a swap. 2. That when a swap is made, some additional work has to be done to ensure that hitboxes and moves make sense. For example, let's say they swap a boxing character with Balrog. For the most part, that makes sense, and it shouldn't be as big of a deal as some people make it out to be. 3. That the character has extra effort put into making the swap not as obvious. Things like removing certain moves, changing how these moves are performed, changing a characters palettes, etc. Essentially, give the ILLUSION of being NEW all the while retaining the core component. ===AI GENERATION=== Now for me personally, while I do like using AI generation software, I do think that in MUGEN, this should be HEAVILY limited to just filling in the blanks where obtainable work is either not easily obtainable or too costly / time consuming to do. Additionally, the AI generation should ONLY be used for adding in more sprites or adding in a custom portrait or textures or something. NEVER USED FOR CODING. After all, I have seen my fair share of KOF edits with AI generated sprites, and honestly, they're not terrible, but could use a tad bit of polish here and there. Its definitely not something I think people should shun, especially since getting someone to make you sprites costs and arm and a leg these days, and it does seem like AI is able to do some solid frankenspriting. ===CHEAPIES=== As much as I am deeply entrenched in the cheap community, it has turned into an absolute slopfest. Cheap characters should be made with the goal to DO SOMETHING NEW, not do more of the same with a different coat of paint. In other words, characters that end up just becoming fullscreen nukes or animated wallpapers (basically) are obnoxious and need to stop being made. Some of these authors seem to have the skill and the talent to make things that are UNIQUE and AMAZING, but then blow it all away on making the 83747382837th Donald edit. I think one of the reasons why the cheapie community has become hated, is the same reason why the JUS community and the KOF community is becoming hated... too much of the same crap over and over again. ===JUS=== I mean, what is there to say that hasn't already been said. A good majority of the MUGEN community hates the JUS community for a reason, and it is the same reason why the cheapie community and the KOF community are also thoroughly hated... lackluster, over-the-top, obnoxious and flashy, system heavy, resource heavy, oversized characters. When all of your characters basically do the exact same crap, with no difference besides what effect is being used, that is when you know you've run out of talent. ===KOF=== Look, I will admit, I am a KOF fanboy... but even I can look at the community and go "come on guys, pull your act together". Too many authors create these really overpowered and absurdly flashy characters for no reason, rather than try something new. Lately, the only people that have been doing something new is the CKOFM team and their associates. So yeah, what about the rest of you... thoughts?

HELL YEAH! More incredible ClayFighter excellence from Basara. We have been blessed on this Halloween.

The jist is... the owner isn't around, and the staff has no power to fix anything, so its locked down to keep what little balance there is left.

Thank you Valgallah ♥︎ Looking forward to more Zangefool characters added to MUGEN.

I didn’t spam, didn’t comment anything weird, didn’t even interact with anyone. Just straight-up banned without warning. No explanation, no email, nothing. If they have rules, fine. But at least explain what I did instead of banning people randomly. It just makes the site feel unwelcoming for regular users who just want to enjoy MUGEN content. Honestly, it kills the vibe of wanting to support the community at all. #FuckYouDizzy Welcome to the club

Fate Copy Type F-C by KenKen

Absolutely peak

Now, let's assume you are talented enough to make any kind of MUGEN full game (or character) you want. Looking through the history of fighting games as a whole, with all that you have seen, and all that you have played... what features would you want to have implimented? Keep in mind, there is no limit to your creation, but at the same time, also try to think about what you love the most from various fighting games, and if they could SOMEHOW be balanced together, what would you add to your ideal game or character(s). 1. Street Fighter III 3rd Strike (Parry System) I'll be honest, of all the fighting games out there, this one will forever remain at the top of my list for this and this alone (okay, well not just this, but it is the topic of discussion). The parry system was given much more praise after Evo Moment #37, and I'll be real... after seeing, I put years of effort into learning the parry, and when you pull it off, it is beautiful. Being able to just do this in any fighting game (especially one I made myself), would really force people to think before rushing in. Though, I will be honest... I would probably make it easier to actually parry, rather than being something you gotta stress on. 2. Mortal Kombat (Fatalities, Brutalities, Animalities, etc) First off, I am not including X-Rays, because frankly, if your move is meant to KILL the opponent, then they should clearly die from it. X-Rays ruined the beauty that is Fatalities by making them essentially into a super move. That said, I was always a fan of Fatalities in the MK series, especially back in the day on the 2D classics with the digitized sprites. It was special, and it was hilarious at times. Nowadays, its a joke, but even so, I appreciate a good kill. 3. Marvel vs Capcom 2 (Tag/Assist System) Look, let's not act like MVC and MVC2 aren't some of the best games out there. But with that being said, I always thought the tag/assist system was special, being able to use your partner in a double-super or even a triple-super or as a meat shield or as a counter against the opponent, talk about adding a whole new level of conflict to worry about. 4. Samurai Shodown (armed/unarmed system) Now this might be an odd one to want, but having a system where losing your weapon or even perhaps something like a body injury system that changes up your moveset, always seemed special to me. It wasn't really that special, but I found it to be unique. 5. Tekken (down but not out system) In other words, being able to hit your opponent after they have already lost, is VERY SATISFYING to me. I dunno what it is, but its especially nice when your opponent is a real jagoff and you just want to keep pummeling them. So having some kind of "after KO" combat functionality would certainly allow for some more action until the next round. So yeah, that is all I could think of at this time. What about the rest of you? In your IDEAL MUGEN game or character, would features would they have?

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/11f9MmFpH09PL4JF_iuYWAUcf3LjPHffI Just go to the main google drive folder for all their stuff

Excellent decision, this should hopefully curb some of the annoyances... that is of course, if people actually read this. Might want to pin it to the site as a notice for a while.

Catwalk by POTS is the closest thing The other thing would be Misao's Morrigan, who has a mini-game of sorts as one of her attack moves, which is similar to DDR

No idea, but why not just find a character that has coding that does that and figure out how it works. The character Shin-Hadou-Ken has projectiles that follow the character, so that might be a good start to figure out the coding from.

I re-did the entire thread

That's what I keep saying. Like, IKEMEN keeps adding features, but none of these things MOST people actually want. ACHIEVEMENTS are really for people who need constant dopamine and stimulation to enjoy a game. I'll be real, if they want to win people over, they need to add things that nearly EVERYONE can either use or want. Like the tag system is nice, but they could go one step further and just copy Add004 by making it also into a MVC striker system as well. How about this... copy Kagure Yaro, and make an in-app fighter creator. Something so that people who can't code, can still make decent characters. If something like that was added, I'd be willing to switch to IKEMEN for good. Imagine, you load up IKEMEN, you access a CREATE-A-FIGHTER function, you pick the moves you want, it pre-sets up the hitboxes based on the non-transparent parts of the sprite, then it has like uhh... sliders or something for deciding move speed or stats or something. Or better yet, I'm willing to switch over, if they add a universal way to mix and match different features from fighting games onto ANY character. For example, imagine you add some MK characters, but they all can parry and combo breaker. I think that'd be neat. Point is... they seem to add things that MOST people are not going to use or NEVER going to deal with and forcefully turn off because of how obnoxious it is. Also please... make a MOBILE PORT of IKEMEN. Having to use Winlator to run it (and it barely works or never works) sucks ass.

Hell yeah, Basara making Clayfighter amazing

This has been resolved through discord.

Unfortunately, I don't have an image of this character, but basically its one of those pseudo-cheapie characters, but all it does is force your PC to restart. Additionally, I am also looking for these debugging characters by Cichol They were originally hosted on his 4shared, but unfortunately, that is completely dead, and all other links on his site to similar content is also dead.

Big love to the HDBZ team, y'all did an amazing job!

HELL decided to share this character https://www.mediafire.com/file/n90lm9763aiu9hd/2025-8-2 They also updated a bunch of their other characters

HDBZ updated to 6.0 Jonathan Young sang a theme song for this.

I'll just clarify my statement overall... ...IKEMEN does have a future, but right now, it is barely alive and will remain that way until people have NO REASON to keep using MUGEN. Problem is, there are tons of reasons to keep using MUGEN that IKEMEN either does not do (i.e. not being playable on mobile devices), does do but most people won't use (i.e. online play), or does not allow (i.e. winMUGEN characters with the cheap coding). Remember, winMUGEN is still the MOST POPULAR version of MUGEN in both China and Japan because a good portion of those communities, are people who make absurd characters that function with very specific coding exploits. All I'm saying, is that I think IKEMEN will eventually become the future of the community, but right now, getting people to switch over, is going to be next to impossible. Aside from VERY SPECIFIC features that IKEMEN has, there really is NO REASON to switch over. Y'all can point out all these features if you want, but you gotta remember... not everyone uses them or even wants them. For example the TAG feature, how many characters do you even see with this on MUGEN in the first place? Not many. Aside from some MVC/MVC2 and CVS/CVS2 creations, most don't use this and don't even bother. Hence why UnoTag patcher exists, in case people actually do want to use these for whatever reason. So, what about NETPLAY? Well, aside from CURATED and ORIGINAL games, how many people actually play online? I'd imagine not many, because MUGEN is inherently UNBALANCED. If I play ONLINE, I am going to want to use a character that I enjoy, that I practiced with, that I have even the SMALLEST amount of skill with. Problem is, in most rosters, this character is fucking broken. He has dodge rolls, supercancels, parries, and even a "ghost" mode that makes him unable to be hit by projectiles. However, I play him because I am a button masher, but he is one of the few characters where even a scrub button masher like myself, can pull off some sick combos and moves out of sheer luck. Let's see... IKEMEN has a built-in replay and recording function. That is neat, but not needed, since people can just use OBS or something. IKEMEN has a random mode / test mode. I guess that is neat if you want to do just constant random matches like SaltyBet or SpriteClub, but like... RandomSelect already exists in MUGEN and MUGEN even has tools to run tournament modes and random battles, so once again... not needed to switch over yet. What else... LUA scripting. That is neat, except for the fact that MOST people in the MUGEN community can barely even create characters as it is, so learning LUA also will probably tank them entirely. As for creators who are skilled, hey... I wish them the best of luck. As for literally everyone else who is just a gamer and not a coder... this does nothing for us, we don't create stuff for MUGEN as it is. So yeah, aside from good coders and maybe a few specific features people want, there isn't much else to look forwards to. Apparently its easier to make a Smash Bros clone in this (cause of platforming), so I guess for an even more niché sub-community of MUGEN that wants smash bros style of gameplay, that'll appeal to them. Uhhh.. seems there is 3D or 2.5D support for levels or something, I guess that is neat... but I dunno how many people who prefer the 2D fighting games will care about that.

I'll just give an in-depth take from my experience as someone who has played every version of MUGEN (including that dog shit called PainTown). Anyways, the reality is this... MUGEN, despite being OLD, benefits from being OLD. First off, it is compatible with MORE devices and systems than IKEMEN. The fact that I can't even run IKEMEN on my phone, yet I am able to play PS Vita games and Xbox 360 games on my phone, says a lot about how poorly handled IKEMEN has been. Secondly, because it is so new, this also means that most people are NOT going to learn how to program for it. It is the same reason why MOST people don't make characters in other fighting game engines, like Knuckle Fighter, EF-12, 2D Fighter Maker 2nd, Schwarzerblitz, etc. It takes a LOT of effort to pursue something new, that is either currently DEAD (Knuckle Fighter), DYING (2D Fighter Maker 2nd), or BARELY ALIVE (IKEMEN). People who have devoted years of their life, are NEVER going to move to IKEMEN unless absolutely necessary for a VERY SPECIFIC feature. Thirdly, if characters made in MUGEN are COMPATIBLE with IKEMEN, then coding MUGEN characters is still the better option, because then they are compatible with MUGEN as well, making them MORE LIKELY to be used in the first place. This is the same reason why MOST people do NOT make Mortal Kombat characters, because the MKP community took it over and basically killed it. Only a VERY SMALL handful of creators made NON-MKP versions of characters, because prior to them, there was NEVER any coding for making fatalities, brutalities, animalities, and stage fatalities, cause all of it was for goddamn obnoxious ass MKP. Fourthly, aside from VERY SPECIFIC features and ONLINE play (which most people won't do in the first place due to how UNBALANCED MUGEN is to begin with), there really are no good reasons to use IKEMEN. Its the same reason why most people don't make MUGEN 1.1 characters either, because the ZOOM feature ruins their characters and makes them less compatible with older versions of MUGEN. Lastly, when MOST projects on IKEMEN are just re-ports of prior MUGEN content, there isn't a whole lot there to look forward to. There are only a VERY SMALL number of ORIGINAL games made on IKEMEN, the rest are just ports of existing content to be played on IKEMEN because of the extra features (like the built-in tag system, which can be done on MUGEN using the unotag patcher). So yeah... IKEMEN, currently lacks the motivation needed to move over to it, especially since IKEMEN specific characters cannot be used on MUGEN, which means most people are NEVER going to see them. Also every MUGEN community still identifies as a MUGEN community, not an IKEMEN community. In fact, I can't even name an IKEMEN website, cause I've never fucking heard of them. I've heard of MUGEN Guild, MUGEN [that one site we don't name], MUGEN Free For all, and others... never heard of an IKEMEN Guild or IKEMEN Archive or an IKEMEN Free For All. Until IKEMEN becomes BACKWARDS compatible and playable on more devices (such as a phone), there is really no reason for MOST MUGEN players to move over. Hell, I can't even compliment IKEMEN on anything, because I still have no fucking way to play it. Can't run it on WinLator (a WINDOWS emulator, that allows me to even play STEAM games on it) for no goddamn reason and there is no Android port. Also, the fact that we can't use cheap characters AT ALL, makes IKEMEN even more lame. Hell, there are winMUGEN patches that let me use 1.0 characters on them and even ways to downgrade 1.0 and 1.1 characters back to winMUGEN simply by editing some code. Guess what I can't do... run a single goddamn IKEMEN specific character on any MUGEN game. Know why? Cause all files are different, all the coding is different.

Whether you actually play MUGEN / IKEMEN or just prefer to WATCH it, what characters stand out the most to you as MUST HAVES in your roster(s)? 1. CustomTetsuExtreme (by XCB, modified by iloveflash) First off, I always thought Tetsu was a cool shotoclone, and XCB did an incredible job recreating him for MUGEN. That said, his AI was a lame duck, but fortunately iloveflash gave him a properly challenging AI and some move enchancements. Now this is the ONLY character that I actually play in MUGEN when I do actually play... which is very rarely. 2. Illusion Trainer (by Ark, modified by Hyde233) So, one thing you'll come to notice about me is that I love characters that have extra functionality and gimmicks. For this special entry, he has a built-in cheat menu, that allows the character to modify all of their stats, strengths, resistances, and more. SADLY, it isn't as cool as I'd like it to be, where it just cheats constantly to prevent from being harmed, but hey... there is potential to make the AI into an absolute nightmare to fight. Imagine a character that can interrupt the match constantly, pull up a cheat menu, and make themselves invulnerable to attacks at the first sign of them being used. Like... you fire a projectile, and before it hits them, the AI pulls up their cheat menu, and makes it so they cannot be hit by projectiles, wouldn't that be cool? 3. SEVEN (by SEVEN) There aren't many Makoto edits I like, but this one holds a special place in my heart. I just wish her AI was brutal, but all and all, she is one of the coolest edits. Essentially, she's like if you fused Hyper Beast (by Cerenas) with Makoto. She really is one of the best edits of Makoto out there, so mad respect to SEVEN, they did a fantastic job at making her a mainstay in my roster. 4. All of KAZ's characters Look... I'm not gonna lie, I am a KAZ fanboy. I love the fact that all of his characters have a challenging (but not cheap) AI, while also having a built-in anti-cheap, and also every character has special intros with other characters depending on their name. Like, there is just an ABSURD amount of effort put into his characters, the dude was way ahead of his time, wish I could have met him to personally thank him for making such beautiful creations. 5. LAYER Testing Characters Characters such as Infinite SoulAbyss (by Rin & Luli), Undefined Universe (by Minase & Nothing2Lose), Spacial Rift (by SL Zero), Dynamic://Parallax (by Minase), and 9470bb12e8a4f34476 (by Minase) are all some of the most FASCINATING characters ever. Watching them absolutely break and dismantle characters is beyond appealing, especially when breaking those characters causes strange things to happen. I dunno what it is, but it is addicting to watch characters completely fall apart when another character forcibly modifies them. Kind of wish they'd make one that does NOT kill the opponent, but does break them.