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Potentially removing Mugen Archive from our site blacklist?

Keep Mugen Archive blacklisted?  

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57 posts in this topic

 

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Forgive me for being blunt, but I think you're being delusional or at the very least optimistic in the extreme on this. Also, saying "well if nobody has it besides MA then it must not have been that great to begin with" reeks of childlike thinking that is beneath you and is more the thing cesarshadow would say, "I can't get that thing? Well, fine, it sucks and I never wanted it anyway!" Since MA has seen considerable growth, it would seem most of the rest of the community does not agree with your assessment; even if we take for truth the very optimistic assumption that all of the Mugen Archive's tens of thousand of files are possessed by other members of the community (or are so bad that no one wants them), what does a person do if want a file that is only held by some lurker who does not engage with the community like I used to be? Post a topic here and hope I notice it and decide to be generous? The Archive streamlines that process, it provides a place where sharing files is as easy as clicking a button and filing out a few fields (wheras the only other option is to tediously register with a filesharing service) as well as find such characters. And yeah, most people that register accounts only do that to download files, but that would be the same here too if registering was required to view the download links.

Whatever grudge you have against this Cesarshadow you should keep off this discussion.

You say MA has had considerable growth? Here's my question, on what basis are you measuring this growth? We both agreed that the majority of those accounts are only there just to download. I've taken a peek over at what MA considers their community and I found that it was laughable. There was barely any community at all.

 

Also, doesn't Archive let anyone upload to there? I trust an author's pride and reputation more than some random person that may have other intentions.

 

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Can you tell me in detail how it is accurate? Like I said, I'm willing to hear you out on this, even if I am skeptical.

- MA bans anyone that disagrees or suggests anything the staff doesn't like.

- MA bans anyone that interacts with any of its "rivals" regardless of whether they've broken MA's rules or not

-As an example of the above, I know a few people that have asked to have their creations taken down from MA, only for them to be banned instead and their creations remaining no matter how polite they were in asking for their removal.

- MA believes Plasmoidthunder has multiple accounts made to defame them
 

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If I was partisan I would be just mindlessly shilling for MA and would refuse to hear anything negative about them. I have already admitted your experiences with MA, whatever they may have been (you haven't told me in any detail yet) were valid, even if I am currently not convinced they were more than a single person's bad experiences.  If I was partisan I would refuse to listen to your side at all. As it is I am a supporter of MA but not a mindless one, i acknowledge they have both good and bad points and am willing to hear why you consider them more of a negative force than a positive one.

 

 

 

You claim that you're looking at MA's negatives, but to be honest, I believe you're just brushing them off as nothing. As long as MA is run by people like Dizzy and Sol, it and it's shillers can go eat a bag of dicks. I have my beliefs and you have yours, let's not waste any more time with this since neither of us is going to budge.

 

1 hour ago, Flare-Gamer-64 said:

Well said my dude. Plus I suggested that they add a "download later" option for Lurkers. So community weekend can be less of a problem so the Lurkers can download the file after the event is over. And that whole streamlining line was so true. Say if you wanted Jotaro by Warusaki3. What would you want to do? Get it fast and easy via going through a few pages? Or go find a Japanese website that you (likely) won't even be able to read? For most of us we would go with the first. Hell archive even has a thread just for files that need updating where you can give them the updated version and then they put that version over the older one. By the Mr Darkflare, if a creation was posted to Mugen Archive, made available only there and then somebody made a link for a different site, Would that also count a stealing?

If I wanted to DL Warusaki's Jotaro, I would just go to Warusaki's site. It's not hard to navigate at all and I know for sure I'm getting Warusaki's Jotaro and not some cheap edit of it. A lot of japanese sites are easy to navigate even if you don't know a lick of japanese.

 

It's only stealing if we were in the year 2007.

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2 hours ago, Darkflare said:

Whatever grudge you have against this Cesarshadow you should keep off this discussion.

You say MA has had considerable growth? Here's my question, on what basis are you measuring this growth? We both agreed that the majority of those accounts are only there just to download. I've taken a peek over at what MA considers their community and I found that it was laughable. There was barely any community at all.

 

Also, doesn't Archive let anyone upload to there? I trust an author's pride and reputation more than some random person that may have other intentions.

 

I could say the same about your grudge against the Mugen Archive (and I'm sorry, but it still looks like a grudge.)

As for growth, I'm measuring it based on my time as a member there since 2013. I was actually a lurker for the first 3 years and I remember back then there were days when the website would get less than half a dozen uploads a day. Now it gets between 20-50 uploads daily and apparently they are doing so well that they stopped using adfly purely because they don't need it anymore. I don't know the specifics because I'm not part of the MA inner circle, but if you think they're on the decline I have some land in a bayou to sell you. I'm pretty sure Dizzy said once they serve something like 25,000 downloads every day now.

And I'm not sure what you're trying to say with your last point. Are you saying that MUGEN downloads are only worth downloading if they have been uploaded directly by their own creators? By that logic, are you saying that no one should download any work by a retired creator, because they are retired and their downloads can no longer be obtained from them (excluding retired creators like Loganir who maintain their own websites, but these are exceedingly rare)?

 

2 hours ago, Darkflare said:

- MA bans anyone that disagrees or suggests anything the staff doesn't like.

- MA bans anyone that interacts with any of its "rivals" regardless of whether they've broken MA's rules or not

-As an example of the above, I know a few people that have asked to have their creations taken down from MA, only for them to be banned instead and their creations remaining no matter how polite they were in asking for their removal.

- MA believes Plasmoidthunder has multiple accounts made to defame them

 

- Just today I told Dizzy something she probably didn't like or want to hear that disagreed with her but I have not been banned (and as I said before, I am not in the inner circle by any means, just an average MA user).
- I'll give you this one, I don't know the details but I was warned not to mention being on MFFA when provided the link to come here.
- I agree with this halfway; I do think it's reasonable for MA to deny requests to have work taken down because, frankly, there are a lot of selfish MINE MINE MINE creators in this hobby that only want to release work under their very specific rules and regulations. Logansam, FabryTaz, creators of this type. It's very selfish of them to try to maintain a stranglehold in this way and I don't blame MA for telling them to get bent, but banning them just for requesting it is excessive.
- I have seen PlasmoidThunder's name on MA and accounts banned for being his dupes but I have no idea who he is or what his history with MA is. As such I will abstain from forming an opinion about this until I learn more about the situation there.

 

2 hours ago, Darkflare said:

You claim that you're looking at MA's negatives, but to be honest, I believe you're just brushing them off as nothing. As long as MA is run by people like Dizzy and Sol, it and it's shillers can go eat a bag of dicks. I have my beliefs and you have yours, let's not waste any more time with this since neither of us is going to budge.

 

 

Not agreeing with you about the MA being pure irredeemable evil is not the same as brushing off MA's negatives, which I have admitted in previous posts exist (I've just said they don't outweigh MA's positives). I appreciate you admitting you're an ideologue about this, even if I disagree with you I respect your honesty.

 

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Story time: I was browsing MUGEN archive one day last Summer, it was a Wednesday (remember that) and I wanted to get a character, I go to download, and i'm not allowed too, I didn't see why? So I go into the forums to ask why, then I see it. A verbal war was going on in the "Community Weekend" section, people were getting banned, left and right, for saying just how messed up it was that it was WEDNESDAY, and people still couldn't download things. So I go type up a paragraph explaining to the staff (Dizzy mostly) why people are angry. Then this guy with a Rugal avatar jumps in behind me and talks about how he has been using MUGEN since the beginning, and was angry about how ridiculous the community "WEEKEND" was and how the site can go "fork" itself. Well, that triggered a ticking time bomb, Dizzy started acting like the victim and blamed ME for this. Then got all her buddies together and got me and Rugal banned. To this day, I have vowed to stay as far away from MUGEN Archive as possible even though its the second thing that appears when you search MUGEN. Until the website gets its mind out of the gutter, I suggest staying far away from it.

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5 hours ago, Gray Fedora Productions said:

Story time: I was browsing MUGEN archive one day last Summer, it was a Wednesday (remember that) and I wanted to get a character, I go to download, and i'm not allowed too, I didn't see why? So I go into the forums to ask why, then I see it. A verbal war was going on in the "Community Weekend" section, people were getting banned, left and right, for saying just how messed up it was that it was WEDNESDAY, and people still couldn't download things. So I go type up a paragraph explaining to the staff (Dizzy mostly) why people are angry. Then this guy with a Rugal avatar jumps in behind me and talks about how he has been using MUGEN since the beginning, and was angry about how ridiculous the community "WEEKEND" was and how the site can go "fork" itself. Well, that triggered a ticking time bomb, Dizzy started acting like the victim and blamed ME for this. Then got all her buddies together and got me and Rugal banned. To this day, I have vowed to stay as far away from MUGEN Archive as possible even though its the second thing that appears when you search MUGEN. Until the website gets its mind out of the gutter, I suggest staying far away from it.

To be fair they don't make it obvious that it's a community weekend. I suggested they change the banner whenever they hold one so people will instantly know about it. And this is one of the reasons why I suggested that they add a download later option. So the Lurkers who don't wanna participate can get them after the event is over. 

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9 hours ago, Darkflare said:

If I wanted to DL Warusaki's Jotaro, I would just go to Warusaki's site. It's not hard to navigate at all and I know for sure I'm getting Warusaki's Jotaro and not some cheap edit of it. A lot of japanese sites are easy to navigate even if you don't know a lick of japanese.

 

It's only stealing if we were in the year 2007.

Fine then. But who has the first search on google when you search up "Mugen Jotaro"? Is it Mugen Archive, or Warusaki3's own site? It's Mugen Archive. And say if this is a new person who didn't know authors were, how would they find it otherwise? And what if people wanted a bunch of JoJo Mugen creations? They would go search "Mugen JoJo characters". In which the top listing is guess what, Archive. Case and point, it's quick, simple and effective. And what the hell is that 2007 statement? That can still hold true today.

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7 hours ago, Milbury said:

- I have seen PlasmoidThunder's name on MA and accounts banned for being his dupes but I have no idea who he is or what his history with MA is.

Yup, that's me. You're probably wondering how I ended up in this situation.

 

I am the head admin of the MUGEN Database. I blacklisted MA on the MUGEN Database as a source for downloads due to their use of adf.ly at the time and the security risks associated with it, and was banned on MA for writing a single silly quip on MFG, like many others at the time.

 

A good while later, certain quotes from the Database Discord were taken out of context regarding MA's pestering of Capcom for money, of which MA (or to avoid blaming the entire site, Sol) saw as a threat on Dizzy's life (note: 'Dizzy should be removed', which was referring to the user's position, not existence) and made a thread about it on MA. Certain people questioned whether Sol had misunderstood, though someone brought up the possibility of these people being my alts, also leading to the person who originally stated 'Dizzy should be removed', DoomBowser, being accused of being my alt. When Dizzy joined the MFFA Discord to tell everyone how evil of a person I am, I explained the whole situation to them as being a huge misunderstanding and posted the original conversation in full, of which Dizzy acknowledged before making a passing statement of how childish we are; it's a pity that despite knowing this, they still continue to parade Sol's original assumption as the truth.

 

To this day, Dizzy persists in claiming I'm trying to divide the entire MUGEN community for my own benefits by instigating a war on MA, as well as flooding sites and Discord servers with alts to convince people to join me. Both statements are a load of nonsense with no evidence to back them up.

 

1 hour ago, Flare-Gamer-64 said:

And what the hell is that 2007 statement? That can still hold true today.

2007 was when what's known as creators' rights was in full swing, which is when stuff in this community was pretty stupid. In short, using code snippets, sprites, and other content from other characters deemed 'closed-source' by the creator was considered stealing, and a lot of forums enforced this to the point of policing releases and banning people who were caught doing such, not to mention the amount of flak you'd get from everyone; in addition, warehousing was despised and creators would actively try to get any rehosted versions of their content taken down.

 

It was dark times, Harry Flare. Dark times.

 

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At this point any further posts in this thread regarding or asking for citations or evidence about which hosting services are malicious or not will be construed as deliberate flame baiting and/or provocation and will be deleted on sight + the poster infracted. We've been through this same shitty song & dance routine many times before. This stops now.

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