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CvTW Scorpion Released, CvTW Sub-Zero Updated by SeanAltly 8/27/13


Lord Batros
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Lol, looks like Seanalty's going to make Movie Mario some day. If only we could find Super Mario Fighter 2 and rip Movie Bowser's sprites from that game, then we'd have a slobber-knocker on our hands. Edit: Tried em out. Just two more disappointments. They feel clunky and unnatural, and their gameplay leaves much to be desired. No, they aren't bad characters in any sense, but considering Seanalty's reputation, I was just hoping they'd play more smoothly.

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I'm not saying they're bad, but they feel a bit stale and clunky, plus a bit unresponsive at times. Seanalty does have talent as a MUGEN character maker, but I think his reputation is a bit exaggerated. I've tried a lot of his characters, but they always seem to disappoint.

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Released? Updated? I already got these guys with Ctrl-C Ctrl-V from CvTW, thank you.

Apperently Memo_fng told Zaibatsu that they will have bugs if taken from the game(CVTW). So there are the "public" releases.

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Does anyone else notice that Sub-Zero's UT seems to behave as if its the one from the full game sometimes I can't use the UT if I do the move too much but if I connect with other moves and build up the invisible meter  it seems I can use it once again. I wonder if Sean forgot to code out the UT bar usage I know he does remove it with all his other public versions of CVTW characters.

 

 

I'm not saying they're bad, but they feel a bit stale and clunky, plus a bit unresponsive at times. Seanalty does have talent as a MUGEN character maker, but I think his reputation is a bit exaggerated. I've tried a lot of his characters, but they always seem to disappoint.

 

They feel smooth in Mugen to me plus in all honestly Sean's Scorpion and Sub-Zero are the best versions on Mugen to play well besides the MK soul ninjas the only character I felt was underwhelming was his Sonic.

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No Fatalities? It isn't Mortal Kombat without Fatalities. (I know they're not in MK style, but still.) I did NOT like his Sonic. He had ONE good gimmick, and that was the fact he summons monitors that grant him shields. Other than that, his moveset was very generic, and a bit on the awkward side. Plus, the majority of his Super moves are screen fillers. I don't like screen fillers, I prefer Super moves that take skill to use. I kind of feel like all of Seanalty's characters generally have generic movesets though. He just seems to go with the most obvious attacks and doesn't try to get creative with movesets.

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No Fatalities? It isn't Mortal Kombat without Fatalities. (I know they're not in MK style, but still.) I did NOT like his Sonic. He had ONE good gimmick, and that was the fact he summons monitors that grant him shields. Other than that, his moveset was very generic, and a bit on the awkward side. Plus, the majority of his Super moves are screen fillers. I don't like screen fillers, I prefer Super moves that take skill to use. I kind of feel like all of Seanalty's characters generally have generic movesets though. He just seems to go with the most obvious attacks and doesn't try to get creative with movesets.

 

They do have fatalities. You finish your opponent off with the lv. 3 supers with them. And if they're "unresponsive and clunky" to you, you're probably doing something wrong, because plenty of other people play with them just fine. They're far from clunky. The only thing that feels unnatural is the ability to chain an air HP from an air HK.

 

"Generic?" "Obvious?" Explain please. He's doing what anyone else would do, which is give the characters the moves that they're known to have. It seems to me like you're asking for something from The_None.

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I'm pretty sure it's not just me. Often times when trying to post punches and kicks, they don't work like they should. To be honest, it feels like you guys are trying to pretend any flaws that Seanalty's characters might have don't exist, as if they are perfect characters. That's how it feels like it. For example, Sonic the Hedgehog has his generic attacks, and not much else. He's got his spin dash: big deal. He's got an uppercut move like MUGENHunter's version, except the angles are very awkward and hard to work with. He also has teleport moves where he moves really fast. But he doesn't really have anything interesting except for his shield monitors. His Scorpion has the usual attacks. The "GIT OVAH HEAYR" spear attack, his teleport punch, and his fire pillars, which aren't pulled off by the normal methods. He also has a flip kick attack which doesn't really fit him even though it was in a few of his games. Frankly, I think he could have picked a better obscure Scorpion move than the flip kick. His Sub-Zero has his freeze blast, his freeze statues, his freeze slide, basically just the usual. His Solid Snake (which I have a striking suspicion is why he's so popular because OMG SOLID SNAKE *Pukes Rainbows*) Mostly has generic gun attacks, as well as mines and an invisibility move (Invisibility is a gimmick).

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I'm pretty sure it's not just me. Often times when trying to post punches and kicks, they don't work like they should. To be honest, it feels like you guys are trying to pretend any flaws that Seanalty's characters might have don't exist, as if they are perfect characters. That's how it feels like it. For example, Sonic the Hedgehog has his generic attacks, and not much else. He's got his spin dash: big deal. He's got an uppercut move like MUGENHunter's version, except the angles are very awkward and hard to work with. He also has teleport moves where he moves really fast. But he doesn't really have anything interesting except for his shield monitors. His Scorpion has the usual attacks. The "GIT OVAH HEAYR" spear attack, his teleport punch, and his fire pillars, which aren't pulled off by the normal methods. He also has a flip kick attack which doesn't really fit him even though it was in a few of his games. Frankly, I think he could have picked a better obscure Scorpion move than the flip kick. His Sub-Zero has his freeze blast, his freeze statues, his freeze slide, basically just the usual. His Solid Snake (which I have a striking suspicion is why he's so popular because OMG SOLID SNAKE *Pukes Rainbows*) Mostly has generic gun attacks, as well as mines and an invisibility move (Invisibility is a gimmick).

 

1. We're not pretending, SeanAltly's characters are plenty responsive. I haven't had any trouble with them. Yes, they're flawed, but for different reasons. (AKA GLITCHES, some of them very bad.)

What do you mean, "they don't work as they should"? Are you trying to do a chain that you're not supposed to or something? It seems to me you're having ridiculous expectations for SeanAltly's characters. Sean's characters are good. They're not perfect. They could be a lot better. But they're not bad. You keep saying "I don't think they're bad", even though what you're saying about them implies that you do think they're bad.

 

2. Sonic's "generic" attacks are all SeanAltly has to work with. What part of "working with what you have" do you not understand? And I don't see what's wrong with the uppercut angle, I can work fine with it. You're probably doing something wrong.

 

3. I don't see how his flip kick doesn't fit him. I think it fits him just fine. I should point out that the leg-grab move would not work in a Capcom vs The World setting without very significant sprite edits, and he doesn't have any other moves to work with. He also does have some command moves you should try looking at.

 

4. Sub-Zero doesn't have that many moves to work with, so blame Midway/Netherrealm Studios for that. But he does have some command moves.

 

5. You seem to ignore the grenades he throws, and the choke grab. I wonder if you even try playing these characters extensively or reading the movelists...

 

It seems to me like you're looking for a Darkstalkers or MVC character, which has crazy easy to pull of combos. If you don't want something that's by your definition of being "generic", then go check out The_None. I may be wrong, but that's how you're coming off as.

 

POTS, Cybaster and Balthazar, The_None, and Jmorphman make such good work that SeanAltly's pales in comparison to, but they're far from perfect.

 

Your criticisms are very vague, you should actually make suggestions instead of saying "I don't like it" and expecting someone to make their works better based on that. Your only valid criticism is that Sonic had screen-filling supers. I wouldn't mind those if Sonic wasn't so tiny, otherwise he could get punished easily if he screwed it up. I really dislike dealing with tiny characters. I swear, SeanAltly was feeling very sadistic when he made Cactuar.

 

Gameplay of a fighting game isn't all about the moves as well. There's also physics, combos, and juggling to think about. Combos aren't simply just chain LP to an SP and then finish with a special move. They can be a lot more complicated than that, and SeanAltly's characters don't just have simple combos. Try figuring out some of your own combos, try finding some good juggles, don't just look at a character's moves and judge them based on that. You should also consider the move's uses. Is it good for ending a blockstring? What kind of hit does it do? Does it open combo/juggle opportunities? Can it punish turtling? Is it a good anti-air?

 

You need to look at the whole picture, don't just take something at face value.

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1. We're not pretending, SeanAltly's characters are plenty responsive. I haven't had any trouble with them. Yes, they're flawed, but for different reasons. (AKA GLITCHES, some of them very bad.) What do you mean, "they don't work as they should"? Are you trying to do a chain that you're not supposed to or something? It seems to me you're having ridiculous expectations for SeanAltly's characters. Sean's characters are good. They're not perfect. They could be a lot better. But they're not bad. You keep saying "I don't think they're bad", even though what you're saying about them implies that you do think they're bad.

They're NOT bad. I just think they're a bit overrated. I hear a lot about how super-mega-awesome-perfect Seanalty is, which is why I always have my expectations so high for his characters.  

2. Sonic's "generic" attacks are all SeanAltly has to work with. What part of "working with what you have" do you not understand? And I don't see what's wrong with the uppercut angle, I can work fine with it. You're probably doing something wrong.

If I were Seanalty, I would try to improvise. I would create new sprites for more interesting attacks. Also, he has two variations. One goes at a low 30 degree angle, the other goes at about an 80 degree angle. Normally rolling uppers like this go at around a 50 degree angle. Eighty degrees feels more natural on uppercut moves than rolling uppers like Sonics, and the 30 degrees he goes by in the first variation doesn't feel right either. I prefer how MUGENHunter's version does it. (Plus I kind of liked MUGENHunter's version's moves better overall.) ...Then again, I suppose it still feels more natural that Claymizer's version, which feels incredibly awkward.  

3. I don't see how his flip kick doesn't fit him. I think it fits him just fine. I should point out that the leg-grab move would not work in a Capcom vs The World setting without very significant sprite edits, and he doesn't have any other moves to work with. He also does have some command moves you should try looking at.

  If I were Seanalty, I would at least try to attempt it.  

4. Sub-Zero doesn't have that many moves to work with, so blame Midway/Netherrealm Studios for that. But he does have some command moves.

Meh.  

5. You seem to ignore the grenades he throws, and the choke grab. I wonder if you even try playing these characters extensively or reading the movelists...

I've only played it when it was first released, so he may have added different moves. But I'm not interested in downloading him again.  

It seems to me like you're looking for a Darkstalkers or MVC character, which has crazy easy to pull of combos. If you don't want something that's by your definition of being "generic", then go check out The_None. I may be wrong, but that's how you're coming off as.

Doesn't The_None make a lot of cheap boss-type characters? But if you mean overall faster and more combo-centered characters, yes that is particularly the kind I like. But I also like characters with move sets that are fun to use.  

POTS, Cybaster and Balthazar, The_None, and Jmorphman make such good work that SeanAltly's pales in comparison to, but they're far from perfect.

  No one's perfect.  

Your criticisms are very vague, you should actually make suggestions instead of saying "I don't like it" and expecting someone to make their works better based on that. Your only valid criticism is that Sonic had screen-filling supers. I wouldn't mind those if Sonic wasn't so tiny, otherwise he could get punished easily if he screwed it up. I really dislike dealing with tiny characters. I swear, SeanAltly was feeling very sadistic when he made Cactuar.

It's not so much that there's something wrong with them, it's just that gameplay and fun-factor wise, they just don't do it for me. And I'm really not sure how to describe what I don't like about them, because I can't really think of the words that describe how the characters feel to me besides "Clunky, a bit slow, often a bit unresponsive at times, could have more interesting moves, etc."  

Gameplay of a fighting game isn't all about the moves as well. There's also physics, combos, and juggling to think about. Combos aren't simply just chain LP to an SP and then finish with a special move. They can be a lot more complicated than that, and SeanAltly's characters don't just have simple combos. Try figuring out some of your own combos, try finding some good juggles, don't just look at a character's moves and judge them based on that. You should also consider the move's uses. Is it good for ending a blockstring? What kind of hit does it do? Does it open combo/juggle opportunities? Can it punish turtling? Is it a good anti-air?   You need to look at the whole picture, don't just take something at face value.

In all seriousness, the fact that you are getting so god-damn defensive over my opinion shows that you think it's wrong, that I'm not entitled to my opinion. You may not understand, but I know a lot about types of attacks (Is it better for ground opponents? Air opponents? Opponents close by? Opponents far away? Blocking opponents? Etc.) and priorities (How moves are effected when coming in contact with other moves. Like Blanka's forward roll attack being defeated by a weak punch because it has low priorities.) and comboing and such. Even if it isn't all about movesets, in general generic movesets create generic gameplay. There's also a such thing as getting TOO creative, but that's not the point. I've tried playing extensively with Seanalty's characters. But no matter how much I use them, they never seem all that fun to use for me. I'm terribly sorry for not having an opinion that matches yours.
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They're NOT bad. I just think they're a bit overrated. I hear a lot about how super-mega-awesome-perfect Seanalty is, which is why I always have my expectations so high for his characters.

Where the hell have you been? Because I've never seen everyone praise him to death.

 

 

 

If I were Seanalty, I would try to improvise. I would create new sprites for more interesting attacks.

You don't understand my point at all. What moves would YOU give him? This isn't a spriting issue, it's source issue.

 

 

 

If I were Seanalty, I would at least try to attempt it.

You really don't know when to decide if something's not worth trying to add, do you?

 

 

 

Doesn't The_None make a lot of cheap boss-type characters? But if you mean overall faster and more combo-centered characters, yes that is particularly the kind I like. But I also like characters with move sets that are fun to use.

"Cheap?" They're not cheap, they just have extremely difficult AI. Except maybe Giygas. But The_None for the most part makes joke characters, and he seems to have the creativity you're asking for. I hope you're not one of those guys who eats up every Ryu/Ken/Akuma release. SeanAltly did alter the moves so that they could work in a MUGEN setting, it seems more you're complaining about aesthetics, and not really the gameplay.

 

 

 

It's not so much that there's something wrong with them, it's just that gameplay and fun-factor wise, they just don't do it for me. And I'm really not sure how to describe what I don't like about them, because I can't really think of the words that describe how the characters feel to me besides "Clunky, a bit slow, often a bit unresponsive at times, could have more interesting moves, etc."

That's fine, but don't act like it's going to help unless you can be a bit more specific. For example, suggest some moves, explain how they're unresponsive, point out glitches, ect. Just saying vague things creates the feeling that you're trying to start a flame war.

 

 

 

In all seriousness, the fact that you are getting so god-damn defensive over my opinion shows that you think it's wrong, that I'm not entitled to my opinion. You may not understand, but I know a lot about types of attacks (Is it better for ground opponents? Air opponents? Opponents close by? Opponents far away? Blocking opponents? Etc.) and priorities (How moves are effected when coming in contact with other moves. Like Blanka's forward roll attack being defeated by a weak punch because it has low priorities.) and comboing and such. Even if it isn't all about movesets, in general generic movesets create generic gameplay. There's also a such thing as getting TOO creative, but that's not the point. I've tried playing extensively with Seanalty's characters. But no matter how much I use them, they never seem all that fun to use for me.

Oh boy, it's the "I'm entitled to my opinion" card. Please spare me that. If I think an opinion is misguided or based on some ridiculous expectation, then I'm going to say something. I hate it when someone acts like their opinions are being oppressed because someone criticized them. Also, your posts suggest that you don't really care about types of attacks, and are just some hipster who wants all moves to be obscure or something. Really, you come off as pretty ignorant.

 

 

 

in general generic movesets create generic gameplay

That's flat-out false.

 

 

 

I'm terribly sorry for not having an opinion that matches yours. 

Thanks for playing the oppressed victim just because your opinion got criticized.

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Where the hell have you been? Because I've never seen everyone praise him to death.

MUGEN communities in general.  

You don't understand my point at all. What moves would YOU give him? This isn't a spriting issue, it's source issue.

Well, let's start by looking at MUGENHunter's Sonic again. For example, he has a move where he tosses a ring and then hones in on an opponent, which was borrowed from Sonic Battle. There's also the tornado move he uses in the Sonic VS Blaze bossfight (when playing as Blaze) in Sonic Rush. There's all sorts of things he could have done.  

You really don't know when to decide if something's not worth trying to add, do you?

Why isn't it? In all seriousness.  

"Cheap?" They're not cheap, they just have extremely difficult AI. Except maybe Giygas. But The_None for the most part makes joke characters, and he seems to have the creativity you're asking for. I hope you're not one of those guys who eats up every Ryu/Ken/Akuma release. SeanAltly did alter the moves so that they could work in a MUGEN setting, it seems more you're complaining about aesthetics, and not really the gameplay.

Of coarse not! I actually am kind of annoyed by all the Ryu/Ken/Akuma releases. But no, I am not complaining about aesthetics. I am complaining about the gameplay.    

That's fine, but don't act like it's going to help unless you can be a bit more specific. For example, suggest some moves, explain how they're unresponsive, point out glitches, ect. Just saying vague things creates the feeling that you're trying to start a flame war.

When playing as Scorpion, I notice his light kick often doesn't work when it should, for example.  

Oh boy, it's the "I'm entitled to my opinion" card. Please spare me that. If I think an opinion is misguided or based on some ridiculous expectation, then I'm going to say something. I hate it when someone acts like their opinions are being oppressed because someone criticized them. Also, your posts suggest that you don't really care about types of attacks, and are just some hipster who wants all moves to be obscure or something. Really, you come off as pretty ignorant.

No, you're just coming off as a jerk who thinks he's right about something. SO WHAT if I don't like Seanalty's characters because I don't like their gameplay? Why is it THAT BIG OF A FUCKING PROBLEM to you? Oh, because I'm being vague? Because I can't explain how something feels slow and clunky when it's NOT EASY TO EXPLAIN!?! The reason I don't like Seanalty's characters that much isn't because I'm trying to be cool, but because they just plain are NOT fun to use for me. ...Also people like you don't help, in all honesty.  

That's flat-out false.

Not really.  

Thanks for playing the oppressed victim just because your opinion got criticized.

maybe if you weren't such a dink about the opinion, maybe I wouldn't "act like I'm being victimized." Cause really, I am being victimized cause you absolutely REFUSE to respect my opinion. Why don't you just accept that I don't like Seanalty's characters playstyles that much and be done with it?

 

Please. I really don't want to talk about this any longer, so can we not? Or at least take it to PM?

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