Jack-M (Gun Jack Clone) Released By Chuchuryu.

[volzzilla]

And don't even get me started on their forums. They have such a "Yes Man" attitude that it makes having constructive criticism impossible.

 

yes man attitude?  there is currently 1 person there that gives feedback, me. and i DL very little. you are welcome to try and give feedback there however since i know i'm far from an expert, but at least i'm trying at times which apparently is more than you have done regarding feedback,

[Phantom Blood]

Call it a marvel/dc conversion and it won't need an update after it's initial release

[Laharl]

BAHAHAHAHAHA

[Darkflare]

Save us Super Volz, from the evil Mugen people!

Never mind the fact that admitting to being the sole "feedback" giver in that forum doesn't really counter his argument at all, that the only chars you DL are comic book characters because fuck everything else and that the feedback you give isn't that helpful at all.

I mean....

HAHAHAHAHA, You will never defeat me, Super Volz! My legion of backup dancers will prove too much for you!

Mugen world is mine!

[Legendary DeMoNk@I]

Yeah sadly. 

 

 

dat face tho LOL

[berserkx33]

There's an entire football field in between giving feedback and it achieving any effect with said feedback.

 

If you read the topics related to him completely, even when the topics are news on other forums, like this one, you can see that people are being "Yes Men".

 

Hell, when was that Yu-gi-oh HD topic released?  WTF, less than a month!

 

This topic is a prime example of why no criticism ever reach Chucho:

 

Also, for IMT, you can visit the show of horrors that was theirs "HD Conversions" marathon. The least effort possible and there where still people defending it, even when it was obvious that most if not all of the involved had not even lifted a straw to make an effort on doing something good.

 

Have fun.

[Lord Batros]

opinions are like ass holes, we all have one, & u cant really argue them down , most everyone wont change theirs based on what someone else thinks, best just to deal with it & move on  & a quick note , i wasnt really defending them so much as i was saying that in comparison to some other filtered characters ( with Vega & Terry Being the exception in this) That IMT's Filtered characters were the least worse of the Lot ,  u mean to tell me that there isnt a clear difference  in This

 

 

Gill from IMT   

 

 

 

To This 

 

some one else filtered bison

 

 

their a pretty obvious difference in the two look wise , that is what i mean by in those from IMT are defiantly "better" options if u wanted to use filtered characters , do i use them personally, No , but do i think they are just an abomination to the world of mugen, no , just another type of character to throw on the pile,nothing more, nothing less 

[HALE R@CE CAES@R]

I deem this character as another "MI AMIGOS" HAHAHAHA!!!

[JokerintheButt]

 

I deem this character as another "MI AMIGOS" HAHAHAHA!!!

 

Mi Amigo = Beta Forever. 

[berserkx33]

Well, Brock, there is the problem, pointing out that "Their filtered chars look better" is still defending them. Filtering is not something that need any kind of effort, specially because it can be completely automated to do it with little to no input necessary. You just need to:

 

1- Extract the SFF

2- Run the SFF images on an automatic filtering program (I know it can be easily automated to the point of you just needing to point a folder to convert everything)

3- Recompress the SFF

4- Use a simple text editor algorithm to replace the coordinates on the air file automaticaly. (It's specially obvious they've completely automated this part because there are obvious discrepancies on the blue hitboxes and the red ones, meaning they are so incompetent to proof read the algorithm, or that they've just copied it from someone else and dont know how it works)

5- Slap your name in the def and call it "Your Contribution"

6- Profit?

 

Following those simple steps, you can filter to HD/HR anything. And no, just because their filter is better it doesn't mean it's justifiable, or even that it works.

 

Look, I'm only going to explain it because I believe you don't know how filtering work. Even if you know, it may help to sate the curiosity of others.

 

Filters are simple output algorithms that calculate the pixel/color ratio to be placed on the empty space in between the original pixels when the image is resized.

 

Here is an example:

 

 

 

As you can see in the above image, I'm using 3 example of filters.

1st is the Normal color fill filter, where it just fill the space with gradients between their pixels

2nd is the SuperEagle, a smarter algorithm where the colors are actually compared to the rest of the picture to discover where to insert the correct colors. Note that it doesn't add colors to the image, something that grants a better output quallity.

3rd is the hq4x, a dumb filter that just calculates what is around the pixel radio and try to come with something in between the colors.

 

Now a more specific example:

 

 

Here are the points over the crystal fall, can you see that in the same order as the other image, the filters treated the point bar in diferent ways:

1st is completely blured.

2nd is using smart fill to find out that all the zeroes must compose rounded objects.

3rd thinks the zeroes over the crystal fall are actually part of the fall and aren't rounded.

 

So, it was not the fault of the guy who converted Sevil Nathe that it was worse, it's just that his filters wheren't smart enough. It had nothing to do with effort.

 

And this is the problem. They shouldn't need defending because they really haven't done anything. Yeah, their algorithm is better, but this algorithm was not made by then, they've just used it from someone else, and it's specially obvious because they don't even got through the trouble of tweeking it work well with big pixel faces, or used the correct one for that, they've just slaped the same filter on every single sprite and called it a day, even when everyone who worked with graphic design know that it's the worst thing you can do for any project, since different image groups require diferent treatments.

 

And also, they REALLY have a YES MEN problem, yesterday I was revisiting the (in)famous School Girl Lilith topic at the guild (http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/schoolgirl-lilith-tehbazzard-and-shindan-70-version-84799.0.html), and there where reports of people from IMT defending that guy. Ya'know? The guy who admited into his inbox on the Infantry that he stole the char stonefaced and tried to take the whole credits from the original creator.

 

There are certain kinds of sittuation where you shouldn't defend people, even if you like their work, or something they've done. It's because of this barrier of white knights that IMT, MMV, Chucho and Co. never improve, because there's always someone to yell:

 

- "But he did the char first so we could be able to enjoy it"

- "No one else would've made it, so we must be grateful for getting it, even at this state"

- "But it looks better than this"

- "Be thankful, they are doing it for free"

 

There's a reason criticism exist, and it's to be the base for improvement, but as long as people keep trying to dismiss criticism because "at least they tried" they will be unable to understand it. By defending them you are just ensuring that they will stay as bad as ever and like it.

[Lord Batros]

oh i completely Agree with u that their is no real effort put into a Filtered Character  & that was a Hell of an explanation , very detailed .

[Legendary DeMoNk@I]

@berserkX33

 

seems you need to do a lot of Hi res conversions for the public then. that was one long drop of Jewels on how to do it^^

 

I dont know anything about your track record but if you havent yet i think you should.

 

show em how its done

 

 

 

 

 

Gill from IMT   

 

 

 

 

hmm I never seen that HD gill before or maybe i forgot. ive seen some bad filters myself at IMT (hell yeah) but im aware now some look better than others i guess

[Darkflare]

I think you need to look beyond berserks example of filtered sprites and pay attention to what he's actually saying.

Because I agree with him and he should be given a medal for it.

[MorbidJoe]

who does that asura belong to >.>

[Lord Batros]

who does that asura belong to >.>

http://flowrallia.digi2.jp/

[MorbidJoe]

http://flowrallia.digi2.jp/

sadly cant test him >; something wrong with cmd

[berserkx33]

Hello, DeMoNk@lL

 

This explanation was just an example.

I've lurked around the IMT forums at the time and know that they've used the horrible and counter productive method of image by image conversion (if i'm not mistaken, they've used one of the PSCS custom user made filters for that). The complete automation thing is just to prove that there's nothing noble about it. It can be automated, any one with a simple batch script can automate almost any process. I know it because I've created some tools for personal use with mugen. If it have a comand prompt parameter input, it's even easier. The only thing IMT proves by doing it the ineficient way is that they don't care that it could be made better.

 

But it still is no big effort. Just because it took time, it doesn't mean it had effort.

 

Color separation is a process that takes around the same time to do and need 4 times the effort. It require constant attention to the details, constantly comparing images to certify that the color separation is consistent with the rest of the set, defining the parts that belong to a diferent color region when working with new details and stamps (Infinite Krauser have Bodysuit sleeves in some of his palletes, even though in the original sprites it was just the arms), etc.

 

Also, I really don't like HD filtering for a simple reason, no matter how smart your filter is, it will never work universally. Sprites are made with their size in mind, so the artist distribute the details acordingly, when you filter it to HD, it just do the same details but with a bigger space. And that make the work look uglier. Because everything get this paper/cartoon look.

 

Here, have an example, courtesy of ImageMagick: http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/resize/

 

 

Look at it, here we have Mai's 94RB sprite, that was redrawn to better fit the higher resolution, then the original 94 sprite, and 2 simple filter sprites. Can you see that the filtered ones look like uther shit compared to new one, specially because the new one takes advantage of the bigger size and put more refined details.

 

I hope that now you can see why I'm so averse to sprite filtering.

 

Edit: Also, just to point it out, this sample program can be automated using a simple VB.NET script. Just to show you how simple it really is.

Post-Edit: Sorry if my tone very agressive in this one, IMT is turning into my Berserk Button (pun intended) nowadays.

[Legendary DeMoNk@I]

@Berserkx33

 

 

nope. not an aggressive tone to me at all. ive seen worse responses. you just spoke your mind thats all. thats how i took it. i was just pretty much saying in a way you should get into filtering characters in HD since you took concern on that subject. There isnt many well done ones out there. it sounds like you would know what you are doing as far as doing it right if you contributed some filters of your own. That was my way of motivating you i guess...

 

At least you broke down ways the person could have done it right. Also provided info on how to possibly show others how to do it right. Seems you are into this kind of mugen skill set so in my mind im like well,hell produce some HD stuff of your own to share. we need that out there. i dont know of many well done HD filtered characters. First and only one i EVER downloaded and actually liked was Rock Howard. i forgot by whom. i have to find it on my ex HD (thats if i didnt lose it before then). that conversion was done back in 07 or 08. i cant remember. but i downloaded it from IMT. someone released it and IIRC they wasnt from the forum.

 

But anyway stay on the tone your'e in. nothing wrong in speaking your mind. in my opinion at least youre trying to break things down on how to do it right while showing images. thats a +5 for feedback methods in my book. we all have opinions. some are better than others.

[berserkx33]

Well, if you're interested, there's a huge community of suport for sprite filtering.

 

There're some projects going on and you can see then here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hqx (I'm just sending the Hqx series because that's the filter who works best on SD sprites) Here's an example:

 

 

The one program I was referencing when talking about "tweeking" is this one: https://bitbucket.org/Tamschi/hqxsharp/overview

 

It can be easily tweeked by playing around with the sliders. Maybe, some time later I can ask the source code of the GUI so I can use it to convert images on mass.

 

If you want to have options on the type of filter, you can download this one: http://code.google.com/p/2dimagefilter/downloads/detail?name=2dImageFilter-r27.dll&can=2&q=

 

The only downside is that it don't have the tweeking option of the other one. But you can still get good results, like this one:

 

 

I find this one better in therm of detailsXbackground. It blends way better.

 

Also, there's Image Magick, the one I've used on the example of the earlier post. It's a simple executable that can be automated using scripts because of it's command lines parameters. You can find it here: http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/resize/

 

Some sprites will still need to be manually fixed later.

 

 

I find it kind of anoying that I found most of it in the spam of a single hour, with no help and just out of curiosity, have a few years, because I was trying to develop a game, and the guys who did the IMT Filtering Marathon couldn't even do that.

[Ryon]

Save us Super Volz, from the evil Mugen people!

Never mind the fact that admitting to being the sole "feedback" giver in that forum doesn't really counter his argument at all, that the only chars you DL are comic book characters because fuck everything else and that the feedback you give isn't that helpful at all.

I mean....

HAHAHAHAHA, You will never defeat me, Super Volz! My legion of backup dancers will prove too much for you!

Mugen world is mine!

 

Your post has been reported, However I do not see anything wrong with it. So i'm dismissing the report.

[Darkflare]

Well, I do.

I don't actually have a legion of backup dancers. If anyone wants to apply...

HAHAHAHA, I see Super Volz has been thwarted by my newest invention! The Denyreportanator!

[Laharl]

doofinsmurtz evil incorporated *Sings*