[Gen6] Tier List: Shaymin-S banned from Doubles OU (08/20/15)

[RicePigeon]

For the interests of diversity and comparison, I've updated the Singles tier lists to include Pokemon Online's versions. While there is alot of overlap in the Ubers and OU tiers (the only real differences being; Mega Metagross is banned in PO's OU while Mega Metagross is not banned from Smogon's OU, a few BL Pokemon making the OU cut, and a few others being dropped), the UU, LU (PO's equivalent of the RU tier), and NU tiers are substantially different from their Smogon counterparts that they deserved mention.

 

It should be noted that PO currently has no equivalent tier to Smogon's PU tier, nor does PO currently support Double Battles, so those tiers are not included. PO's AG tier is identical to Smogon's (Its basically just Mega Rayquaza, anyway), so it has not been included.

[Galvatron]

Oh I see. well that makes alot of sense.

[RicePigeon]

It should also be noted that the suspect test to allow Origin Giratina into OU only applies to Smogon's OU tier, not PO's. There's also speculation that the Giratina suspect test may be an early April Fools joke, but until it is confirmed otherwise, we should treat the Giratina suspect test as real.

 

That being said, many people (myself included) agree that Origin Giratina does solve the current problem of OU being entirely match-up based. The problem is that Origin Giratina itself walls 66% of the OU tier, where it is pretty much receiving Primal Groudon levels of usage (in the neighborhood of 66%, which is P.Don's current usage in Ubers) to the point where Origin Giratina IS the metagame.

 

It's exhibiting similar behavior as Aegislash before it was banned from OU in that it fits onto EVERY team playstyle. While you could argue that the fact that its forced to hold the Griseous Orb makes it predictable, the fact that's worse is that Origin Giratina has a total of ten, count it, TEN viable movesets in OU, making it rather unpredictable;

 

1. Mixed Attacker + Phazer
2. Rest Talk + Dragon Tail
3. Substitute + Calm Mind
4. Calm Mind + 3 Attacks
5. Tailwind Attacker
6. Rest Talk + Calm Mind
7. Physical Attacker
8. Special Attacker
9. Defog Supporter
10. Defensive + Will-o-Wisp

No other Pokemon has this many viable moveset options in ANY tier, not even Pokemon that have been banned from OU in the past have this many options.

[RicePigeon]

So it turns out the Origin Giratina suspect test was an April Fools prank all along.

 

So yeah, we're not getting the Ghost/Dragon personification of Lucifer to save the OU metagame after all...

[Galvatron]

So it turns out the Origin Giratina suspect test was an April Fools prank all along.

 

So yeah, we're not getting the Ghost/Dragon personification of Lucifer to save the OU metagame after all...

Oh wow! ain't that something.

 

well you gotta love the first of April. LOL!

[RicePigeon]

Smogon recently adopted a new policy regarding their tier system. As you may or may not currently be aware, Smogon's tiers are updated every 3 months, with every Pokemon above 3.41% usage over three months rising to the highest tier where they have achieved this 3.41% minimum usage requirement, while Pokemon that are used less than 3.41% usage over three months fall down to the tier immediately below the tier they have previously occupied, unless that Pokemon had already been specifically banned from that tier in which case they will fall to that tier's respective BL list instead.

 

Stemming from the period lasting from Jan 2015 to March 2015 where all usage data prior to Dec 2014 was lost in a server crash, Smogon derived a new policy known as Quick Rises and Quick Drops, which occured every month as opposed to every three months, in order to compensate for the lack of data. In addition to the above 3-month tiering policy, Smogon retains this monthly system of quick rises and quick drops every month. The usage cutoff for Quick Rises and Quick Drops are much higher and lower than that of the standard 3.41% use every three months, with the monthly high cutoff being 6.7% for rising to a higher tier, and the monthly low cutoff being 1.7% to drop to the tier below.

 

That being said, here are the Quick Rises & Quick Drops for March 2015, along with their use statistics for that tier for the month:

 

Quick Rises

: BL -> OU (7.343%)

: BL2 -> UU (9.171%)

: BL3 -> RU (7.636%)

: BL4 -> NU (7.379%)

 

Quick Drops

None

[RicePigeon]

So after two new games added to the 6th Generation lineup and eight months of being banned to Ubers, Aegislash is finally being retested to see if it can come back to OU:

 

 

 

Hi guys, the tiering OU Council has decided to test Aegislash this round.

After testing numerous threats for Ubers, we are inverting the course this round. Aegislash has been the uncontested ruler of the early stages of Gen 6. With its outstanding 150/150 offensive statistics, coupled with equally incredible 150/150 defenses when in Shield form, excellent defensive and offensive typing and access to King's shield, Aegislash has been the most controversial Pokémon in the X/Y era. Its ban happened because a handful of voters decided to change their vote right before the end of the voting phase and the community at large has never been entirely convinced that the Royal Sword Pokémon was overpowered in the OU tier.
The current OU metagame is characterized by the presence of incredibly powerful attackers, such as Mega-Metagross, Mega-Diancie, Mega-Gardevoir and so on. We believe that a Pokémon like Aegislash, while being potentially overcentralizing, could provide a reliable and all-round check to many of the aforementioned threats, thus giving some stability to a tier that's currently heavily influenced by the match up component of the game.

[RicePigeon]

Mega Camerupt and Typhlosion are now banned from NU

 

 

As one of the two remaining megas in NU, Mega Camerupt is a huge threat just by existing. But Mega Camerupts Sheer Force boosted Fire Blasts and Earth Powers are simply to hard to switch into. This, combined with Mega Camerupts great bulk, solid defensive typing, and excellent utility options have led voters to believe that Mega Camerupt is broken in NU.

 

Typhlosion has been banned from NU due to the significant strain it puts on teambuilding, as the majority of its checks have no recovery and are weak to its coverage options. This strain, along with the sheer wallbreaking prowess Typhlosion possesses, and the decent utility of the Charcoal + Will-O-Wisp set, has caused it to be banned from NU.

[Galvatron]

Mega Camerupt and Typhlosion are now banned from NU

 

Hmm. Im surprised. 

[RicePigeon]

Back to the topic of Aegislash's potential return to OU;

 

It seems now that the Aegislash suspect test now has three options;

 

• Keep Aegislash banned from OU
• Unban Aegislash from OU, but ban King's Shield from OU
• Unban Aegislash from OU in its entirety.

 

The new 2nd option appears to be stemming from the argument that part of Aegislash's initial ban was due to the fact that it forces 50/50 scenarios that more or less make over half of the current Pokemon in OU unviable.

[Neo_Fire_Sonic]

Hmm. Im surprised. 

 

I'm not, I always knew Typhlosion was good.

[RicePigeon]

May tier shifts are here

Tier Rises
: UU -> OU
: BL -> OU
: UU -> OU
: BL -> OU

: RU -> UU
: RU -> UU
: RU -> UU
: BL2 -> UU
: RU -> UU
: RU -> UU
: RU -> UU
: RU -> UU
: RU -> UU

: NU -> RU
: BL3 -> RU
: NU -> RU
: BL3 -> RU

: PU -> NU
: PU -> NU
: BL4 -> NU

Tier Drops
: OU -> UU
: OU -> BL
: OU -> UU
: OU -> UU

: UU -> RU
: UU -> RU
: UU -> RU
: UU -> RU

: RU -> NU
: RU -> NU
: RU -> NU
: RU -> NU

[RicePigeon]

For the Gallade fans, they decided to quickdrop Gallade down to RU;

Effective immediately, Gallade is now dropped to RU as an addition to the May tier shifts. This is the same situation we had with Medicham a few months ago.

Essentially what happened was Gallade received a mega, moved out of RU, the mega was sent to BL, then Gallade moved up to OU via usage. Now that Gallade dropped out of OU, it makes little sense to keep base form Gallade in UU when Mega Gallade is BL and regular Gallade was previously RU.

You can read a more detailed version of the reasoning in our previous post about Medicham: https://www.facebook.com/SmogonU/posts/10153053463682390

Source: https://www.facebook.com/SmogonU/posts/10153275935247390

[Galvatron]

 

For the Gallade fans, they decided to quickdrop Gallade down to RU;

 

Source: https://www.facebook.com/SmogonU/posts/10153275935247390

 

Wow thats crazy! I mean its mega-form is pretty good but I guess due to its typing and not so high defences alot of OU pokemon out-Ranks it. :-P

[RicePigeon]

Mega Gallade is still good in OU, it just has competition from the other megas, which is why its usage decreased. The decision to drop regular Gallade from UU to RU was based on regular Gallade alone, since Mega Gallade is banned from all tiers except OU and regular Gallade pretty much sucks in UU. Its the same situation with Politoed, except replace the Mega Stone with Drizzle. If it wasn't for Drizzle being banned in all tiers except OU and Ubers, Politoed would be sitting in UU or possibly BL right now.

[Galvatron]

Mega Gallade is still good in OU, it just has competition from the other megas, which is why its usage decreased. The decision to drop regular Gallade from UU to RU was based on regular Gallade alone, since Mega Gallade is banned from all tiers except OU and regular Gallade pretty much sucks in UU. Its the same situation with Politoed, except replace the Mega Stone with Drizzle. If it wasn't for Drizzle being banned in all tiers except OU and Ubers, Politoed would be sitting in UU or possibly BL right now.

Ah! I see that make since then....

 

At least Mega-Gallade is still Up in OU.

[RicePigeon]

Except Mega Gallade isnt OU, its BL, which means it can only be used in the OU metagame anyway.

[MugoUrth]

It's kind of cool seeing Hippowdon up their in OU again, though Mamoswine and one of my mains, Mandibuzz, dropped. I don't know if it's the last of them I'll be seeing though. As for the Gallade drop, all I really can do is quote Nelson Muntz: Ha ha!

 

Also Slurpuff rise. I like Slurpuff more than most people do (heck, she's in my damn sig for crying out loud. ...Though mostly as a joke). Slurpuff is kind of a two-trick Ponyta though, kind of has one physical set and one special set that works for it, but they can be pretty strong if used right. Slurpuff is the slowest fully evolved Pokemon with Unburden, but even then Unburden still makes it faster than most Pokemon. ...I don't know about most OU Pokemon, but still.

[RicePigeon]

Mamo and Mandibuzz are still usable in OU (Mamo is still like A- rank iirc) so its not like they're gone from the tier.

 

Though the consensus seems to be that Mamoswine is really good in UU so far, I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up getting suspect tested.

[MugoUrth]

Honestly, I think Mamoswine's main claim to fame is that he's one of the only good offensive Ice Types. Ice Type, at it's core, is an offensive type. It has so many weaknesses, and only one resistance, but many types are weak to it including Dragon.

[RicePigeon]

Kingdra is now banned from RU:
 

Kingdra is an extremely versatile Pokemon that depending on the set renders Stall, Balance, and Offense unviable. The Critdra set has a total of 0 viable defensive responses in the tier (unless you count AV Shell Armor Lapras as viable, which I do not), while maintaining its prowess against offense thanks to Agility. Against more offensive teams, Rain Dance Kingdra has very limited checks, and if given one free turn to set up Rain Dance, it is often "good game", this can be made even more threatening by using another Pokemon to provide Rain for it. On top of the ease with which RD Kingdra batters offensive teams, it is also extremely difficult to deal with for defensive teams do to the sheer power of LO Hydro Pump in the rain, and the fact that there are pretty muchno viable Pokemon allowed in RU that resist both Water and Dragon. And this doesn't even mention the Dragon Dance set(s) which can easily dismantle balance, and hit the opponent from the physical side unexpectedly beati. While all of these sets need a turn of set up in order to sweep, this is actually very easy for Kingdra to obtain given its good defenses for an offensive Pokemon, and excellent defensive typing with only two weaknesses, while holding some key resists such as a 4x resistance to Water and Fire. Overall, Kingdra's lack of checks and counters, and the ease with which it can set up and sweep mean that Kingdra is far to much for the RU tier and thus has been unanimously quick banned by the RU council.

[RicePigeon]

The Aegislash suspect test for Singles OU is over; Aegislash remains banned from Singles OU.

 

 

Even though we're still missing a few votes, they would not change the outcome of this Suspect test. Aegislash's fate is decided and I'm going to anticipate the results of the vote:

Number of votes: 206
Unban: 56
Do Not Unban: 150

72.8% of the voter pool decided that Aegislash should remain in Uber, and therefore won't be reintroduced in OU.

[Galvatron]

The Aegislash suspect test for Singles OU is over; Aegislash remains banned from Singles OU.

Im kind of surprise but then again it does know some good attacks and its a very suppotive pokemon on its self with 'King's Shield'. :-P

[MugoUrth]

I still don't get it though. Aegislash is never a Pokemon I had all that much trouble dealing with in OU.

[RicePigeon]

The main reason they wanted to suspect test Aegislash and see if it could be allowed back in OU was because, currently, there are so many powerful threats in OU that it's impossible to prepare for all of them, removing the skill aspect from the game and making the metagame matchup reliant, and allowing Aegislash back in OU would have provided a blanket check to many of these Pokemon, which would be an ease on teambuilding.

 

The problem with Aegislash is that it takes things to the opposite extreme, and becomes too centralizing. The metagame then shifts to the point where the only viable teambuilds are; build a team around Aegislash, or build a team with the explicit purpose of checking Aegislash. Both of Aegislash's sets, Crumbler (KS/ShadowBall/FlashCannon/SacredSword) and SubToxic (Sub/Toxic/KS/ShadowBall) have different sets of checks and counters (if you're using Aegislash as a Swords Dancer in OU then you're using Aegislash wrong) which makes Aegislash VERY difficult to check. And lets not forget that Shadow Ball only has one resist and one immunity, and when backed by STAB and 150 base Sp.Attack makes it VERY difficult to switch in to.

 

Then there's another problem with Aegislash; because its blanket checks so many Pokemon, certain Pokemon who are already pretty damn good become even better since they no longer have to deal with the Pokemon that Aegislash checks. The two worst offenders are namely Mega Lopunny and Landorus-Incarnate, as they no longer have to deal with Pokemon like Latios, Latias, Mega Metagross, Jirachi, Tornadus-Therian, and much more. Landorus-Incarnate is already a Pokemon that many people want to be suspect tested next after Aegislash, do we really need to make it even more broken? Psychic types in general become unviable. This was exactly the case when Aegislash was allowed back in XY OU; (Mega) Alakazam, Latios, Latias, Starmie, Celebi, Jirachi, Mew, (Mega) Gardevoir, and (Mega) Medicham all drastically rose in viability after Aegislash's ban, and in all cases those who were UU or BL at the time all rose to OU.

 

A lot of arguments both for Aegislash being unbanned and against Aegislash being unbanned can be found here for those interested in delving into understanding why Aegislash was banned from OU both times.