Laharl Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 @trini why in the world did you give espeon or any of the others besides jolteon quick attack? Would you be cool with changing that move I have some way better ideas to better fit the characters thats my main complaint with your chars on this project. Besides the cloning bugs occasionally Some of the moveset could be better done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinitronity Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I gave every Eeveelution a Quick Attack for a reason. All of them have one in order to make it further obvious that all of them are the first evoltion of one and the same POKéMON. Also, if I was to make Sylveon, then I would give it a Quick Attack as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicePigeon Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 You'd have to make sure Sylveon's Quick Attack is Fairy typing and 52 base power because of Pixilate and whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Алексей Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I think Quick Attack is a very useful attack – more so here than in the real pokemon games. It can be used a nice interrupt when timed properly and as a result, just adds another level of tactics to a character. If every character has super powerful moves – that are coded properly and fairly – then they loose a bit of tact and/or could be considered unfair. It's about balance and soon we'll be balancing the real damage formulas of pokemon with the unique elements of PCEA such as ATB. Remember, Speed isn't a real stat in PCEA. It's adapted to ATB recovery rate. The quicker your ATB recovers, the quicker you attack, therefore the quicker you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laharl Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 16 hours ago, Captain Papyrus said: I gave every Eeveelution a Quick Attack for a reason. All of them have one in order to make it further obvious that all of them are the first evoltion of one and the same POKéMON. Also, if I was to make Sylveon, then I would give it a Quick Attack as well. that is a bad reason. People KNOW they are evolutions make them stand out more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinitronity Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Well, to be honest, Alexei got a much better point than me: 5 hours ago, Алексей said: I think Quick Attack is a very useful attack – more so here than in the real pokemon games. It can be used a nice interrupt when timed properly and as a result, just adds another level of tactics to a character. If every character has super powerful moves – that are coded properly and fairly – then they loose a bit of tact and/or could be considered unfair. It's about balance and soon we'll be balancing the real damage formulas of pokemon with the unique elements of PCEA such as ATB. Remember, Speed isn't a real stat in PCEA. It's adapted to ATB recovery rate. The quicker your ATB recovers, the quicker you attack, therefore the quicker you are. Also: 5 hours ago, Ricepigeon said: You'd have to make sure Sylveon's Quick Attack is Fairy typing and 52 base power because of Pixilate and whatnot. Will try to remember that for the future. Thanks, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laharl Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 well if you won't change things I will see if i can for the official. Secondly I want you to realize the system is being updated to have PHY and SP attack so quick attack on pokes with higher SP atk is going to be a bit less useful. It is your character for your version but know I am going to see with the rest of the team about fixing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinitronity Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Ugh...I really hope all my Eeveelutions will keep theier Quick Attack still. At least let us make a poll, so everyone can decide and the majority wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laharl Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I am not trying to be mean but you are not actually part of the team officially. also in other news reagah is streaming a tourney http://www.twitch.tv/reagah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinitronity Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Ugh...I thought I was... Alexei, why? :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laharl Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 you are a contributor that means the actual team can do as they see fit with things released for it. Obviously you will still be credited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Алексей Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 2 hours ago, Captain Papyrus said: Ugh...I thought I was... Alexei, why? :( Well the devs of the game are the ones editing the system. There's different ranks if you will and you're in the middle rank. Under that is tester/streamer and under that is user. So, not too bad, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinitronity Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Hrrm...I guess so... I guess I'm just a bit disappointed that most of my Eeveelutions could possibly lose Quick Attack. Or even worse: That my Jigglypuff could possibly lose its Super Smash Bros moveset. Now that's really something that I do not want to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Алексей Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 4 hours ago, Captain Papyrus said: Hrrm...I guess so... I guess I'm just a bit disappointed that most of my Eeveelutions could possibly lose Quick Attack. Or even worse: That my Jigglypuff could possibly lose its Super Smash Bros moveset. Now that's really something that I do not want to lose. I'm only changing things if I see they're not balanced with the new system. I was doing some testing yesterday and Quilava's Flamethrower is able to destroy Venusaur and even Flame Wheel if it crits. The idea is to get as close to the way real pokemon games work as possible, while still fitting the unique parts of PCEA into the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinitronity Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Hmm...while testing out my Eeveelutions in singles (with the system I have), I was getting the feeling that they were actually on the lwer tiers, strangely. If their moves stay, how high in the tier list are my Eeveelutions with the newer system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicePigeon Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 2 hours ago, Алексей said: I'm only changing things if I see they're not balanced with the new system. I was doing some testing yesterday and Quilava's Flamethrower is able to destroy Venusaur and even Flame Wheel if it crits. The idea is to get as close to the way real pokemon games work as possible, while still fitting the unique parts of PCEA into the mix. Under Gen 6 mechanics; 252+ SpA Quilava Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 168-200 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO 252+ SpA Blaze Quilava Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 254-300 (69.7 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ Atk Quilava Flame Wheel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur on a critical hit: 168-200 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO 252+ Atk Blaze Quilava Flame Wheel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur on a critical hit: 252-296 (69.2 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO So yeah, Quilava's STAB attacks shouldn't be doing anywhere near OHKOs on normal Venusaur, even with the boost from Blaze. The damage will be even less with my proposed idea of reducing super effective damage from 200% to 150% due to how fast paced PCEA is compared to the source games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Алексей Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 32 minutes ago, Ricepigeon said: Under Gen 6 mechanics; 252+ SpA Quilava Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 168-200 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO 252+ SpA Blaze Quilava Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 254-300 (69.7 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ Atk Quilava Flame Wheel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur on a critical hit: 168-200 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO 252+ Atk Blaze Quilava Flame Wheel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur on a critical hit: 252-296 (69.2 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO So yeah, Quilava's STAB attacks shouldn't be doing anywhere near OHKOs on normal Venusaur, even with the boost from Blaze. The damage will be even less with my proposed idea of reducing super effective damage from 200% to 150% due to how fast paced PCEA is compared to the source games. I think it's because each particle of fire is being calculated as it's own attack. Basically, each time you do damage the result is seen as base damage (with STAB applied if applicable). I'm also not sure how to remedy that without just converting it to a single-hit move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicePigeon Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I forgot if there's damage dampening involved but if there isn't you could just divide the base damage by the number of hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Алексей Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 14 minutes ago, Ricepigeon said: I forgot if there's damage dampening involved but if there isn't you could just divide the base damage by the number of hits. I have attack=100 and defense=100 (mugen values) standard and Lifeadd has absolute=1 so it should be ignoring defense (mugen value). Yep, that's exactly how it is. Each particle does a part of the final base damage, but then each hit will have its own calculation, including type-effectiveness. That's probably why it's able to OHKO Venusaur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicePigeon Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Depends on how many hits. Using the actual damage formula from gen 6, attacks that hit multiple times do do slightly more maximum damage than a single-hit attack of equivalent base power (ie: 4 Hit Rock Blast (25x4) vs Stone Edge (100)), but I doubt it'll have that severe of an impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Алексей Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Just now, Ricepigeon said: Depends on how many hits. Using the actual damage formula from gen 6, attacks that hit multiple times do do slightly more maximum damage than a single-hit attack of equivalent base power (ie: 4 Hit Rock Blast (25x4) vs Stone Edge (100)), but I doubt it'll have that severe of an impact. Well Flamethrower has 90 hits in it, for 1 damage per particle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinitronity Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Well, I made a patch for Quilava, which changes Flamethrower into 45 particles with 2 damage each. Not sure if that helps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Алексей Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 10 minutes ago, Captain Papyrus said: Well, I made a patch for Quilava, which changes Flamethrower into 45 particles with 2 damage each. Not sure if that helps... Nah, it really doesn't. Because the system has changed, so has Quilava. No worries. I'll figure something out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicePigeon Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 252+ SpA Quilava Flamethrower (Base 90, 1 hit) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 168-200 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO 252+ SpA Quilava Flamethrower (Base 2, 45 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 270-360 (74.2 - 98.9%) -- Guaranteed 2HKO 252+ SpA Quilava Flamethrower (Base 1, 90 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 180-540 (49.5 - 148.4%) -- 48.9% chance to OHKO Yeah the number of hits is clearly an issue here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinitronity Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 If the chances for an 2HKO are so high with "Base 2, 45 hits", then I do not want to imagine how high it would be with its original configuration (Base 1, 90 hits). Hmm...how high are the chances for 2HKO with "Base 3, 30 hits" and "Base 5, 18 hits" respectively? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now