Project Catch 'Em All

[Laharl]

@trini why in the world did you give espeon or any of the others besides jolteon quick attack? Would you be cool with changing that move I have some way better ideas to better fit the characters thats my main complaint with your chars on this project. Besides the cloning bugs occasionally Some of the moveset could be better done.

[Trinitronity]

I gave every Eeveelution a Quick Attack for a reason.

All of them have one in order to make it further obvious that all of them are the first evoltion of one and the same POKéMON.

Also, if I was to make Sylveon, then I would give it a Quick Attack as well.

[RicePigeon]

You'd have to make sure Sylveon's Quick Attack is Fairy typing and 52 base power because of Pixilate and whatnot.

[Алексей]

I think Quick Attack is a very useful attack – more so here than in the real pokemon games. It can be used a nice interrupt when timed properly and as a result, just adds another level of tactics to a character. If every character has super powerful moves – that are coded properly and fairly – then they loose a bit of tact and/or could be considered unfair. It's about balance and soon we'll be balancing the real damage formulas of pokemon with the unique elements of PCEA such as ATB. Remember, Speed isn't a real stat in PCEA. It's adapted to ATB recovery rate. The quicker your ATB recovers, the quicker you attack, therefore the quicker you are.

[Laharl]

16 hours ago, Captain Papyrus said:

I gave every Eeveelution a Quick Attack for a reason.

All of them have one in order to make it further obvious that all of them are the first evoltion of one and the same POKéMON.

Also, if I was to make Sylveon, then I would give it a Quick Attack as well.

 

that is a bad reason. People KNOW they are evolutions make them stand out more.

[Trinitronity]

Well, to be honest, Alexei got a much better point than me:

5 hours ago, Алексей said:

I think Quick Attack is a very useful attack – more so here than in the real pokemon games. It can be used a nice interrupt when timed properly and as a result, just adds another level of tactics to a character. If every character has super powerful moves – that are coded properly and fairly – then they loose a bit of tact and/or could be considered unfair. It's about balance and soon we'll be balancing the real damage formulas of pokemon with the unique elements of PCEA such as ATB. Remember, Speed isn't a real stat in PCEA. It's adapted to ATB recovery rate. The quicker your ATB recovers, the quicker you attack, therefore the quicker you are.

Also:

5 hours ago, Ricepigeon said:

You'd have to make sure Sylveon's Quick Attack is Fairy typing and 52 base power because of Pixilate and whatnot.

Will try to remember that for the future. Thanks, man.

[Laharl]

well if you won't change things I will see if i can for the official. Secondly I want you to realize the system is being updated to have PHY and SP attack so quick attack on pokes with higher SP atk is going to be a bit less useful. It is your character for your version but know I am going to see with the rest of the team about fixing it.

[Trinitronity]

Ugh...I really hope all my Eeveelutions will keep theier Quick Attack still.

At least let us make a poll, so everyone can decide and the majority wins.

[Laharl]

I am not trying to be mean but you are not actually part of the team officially.

 

also in other news reagah is streaming a tourney

 

http://www.twitch.tv/reagah

[Trinitronity]

Ugh...I thought I was...

Alexei, why? :(

[Laharl]

you are a contributor that means the actual team can do as they see fit with things released for it. Obviously you will still be credited.

[Алексей]

2 hours ago, Captain Papyrus said:

Ugh...I thought I was...

Alexei, why? :(

Well the devs of the game are the ones editing the system. There's different ranks if you will and you're in the middle rank. Under that is tester/streamer and under that is user. So, not too bad, right?

[Trinitronity]

Hrrm...I guess so...

I guess I'm just a bit disappointed that most of my Eeveelutions could possibly lose Quick Attack.

Or even worse: That my Jigglypuff could possibly lose its Super Smash Bros moveset. Now that's really something that I do not want to lose.

[Алексей]

4 hours ago, Captain Papyrus said:

Hrrm...I guess so...

I guess I'm just a bit disappointed that most of my Eeveelutions could possibly lose Quick Attack.

Or even worse: That my Jigglypuff could possibly lose its Super Smash Bros moveset. Now that's really something that I do not want to lose.

I'm only changing things if I see they're not balanced with the new system. I was doing some testing yesterday and Quilava's Flamethrower is able to destroy Venusaur and even Flame Wheel if it crits. The idea is to get as close to the way real pokemon games work as possible, while still fitting the unique parts of PCEA into the mix.

[Trinitronity]

Hmm...while testing out my Eeveelutions in singles (with the system I have), I was getting the feeling that they were actually on the lwer tiers, strangely.

If their moves stay, how high in the tier list are my Eeveelutions with the newer system?

[RicePigeon]

2 hours ago, Алексей said:

I'm only changing things if I see they're not balanced with the new system. I was doing some testing yesterday and Quilava's Flamethrower is able to destroy Venusaur and even Flame Wheel if it crits. The idea is to get as close to the way real pokemon games work as possible, while still fitting the unique parts of PCEA into the mix.

 

Under Gen 6 mechanics;

• 252+ SpA Quilava Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 168-200 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO
• 252+ SpA Blaze Quilava Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 254-300 (69.7 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252+ Atk Quilava Flame Wheel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur on a critical hit: 168-200 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO
• 252+ Atk Blaze Quilava Flame Wheel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur on a critical hit: 252-296 (69.2 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

So yeah, Quilava's STAB attacks shouldn't be doing anywhere near OHKOs on normal Venusaur, even with the boost from Blaze. The damage will be even less with my proposed idea of reducing super effective damage from 200% to 150% due to how fast paced PCEA is compared to the source games.

[Алексей]

32 minutes ago, Ricepigeon said:

 

Under Gen 6 mechanics;

• 252+ SpA Quilava Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 168-200 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO
• 252+ SpA Blaze Quilava Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 254-300 (69.7 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252+ Atk Quilava Flame Wheel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur on a critical hit: 168-200 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO
• 252+ Atk Blaze Quilava Flame Wheel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur on a critical hit: 252-296 (69.2 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

So yeah, Quilava's STAB attacks shouldn't be doing anywhere near OHKOs on normal Venusaur, even with the boost from Blaze. The damage will be even less with my proposed idea of reducing super effective damage from 200% to 150% due to how fast paced PCEA is compared to the source games.

I think it's because each particle of fire is being calculated as it's own attack. Basically, each time you do damage the result is seen as base damage (with STAB applied if applicable). I'm also not sure how to remedy that without just converting it to a single-hit move.

[RicePigeon]

I forgot if there's damage dampening involved but if there isn't you could just divide the base damage by the number of hits.

[Алексей]

14 minutes ago, Ricepigeon said:

I forgot if there's damage dampening involved but if there isn't you could just divide the base damage by the number of hits.

I have attack=100 and defense=100 (mugen values) standard and Lifeadd has absolute=1 so it should be ignoring defense (mugen value). Yep, that's exactly how it is. Each particle does a part of the final base damage, but then each hit will have its own calculation, including type-effectiveness. That's probably why it's able to OHKO Venusaur.

[RicePigeon]

Depends on how many hits. Using the actual damage formula from gen 6, attacks that hit multiple times do do slightly more maximum damage than a single-hit attack of equivalent base power (ie: 4 Hit Rock Blast (25x4) vs Stone Edge (100)), but I doubt it'll have that severe of an impact.

[Алексей]

Just now, Ricepigeon said:

Depends on how many hits. Using the actual damage formula from gen 6, attacks that hit multiple times do do slightly more maximum damage than a single-hit attack of equivalent base power (ie: 4 Hit Rock Blast (25x4) vs Stone Edge (100)), but I doubt it'll have that severe of an impact.

Well Flamethrower has 90 hits in it, for 1 damage per particle.

[Trinitronity]

Well, I made a patch for Quilava, which changes Flamethrower into 45 particles with 2 damage each.

Not sure if that helps...

[Алексей]

10 minutes ago, Captain Papyrus said:

Well, I made a patch for Quilava, which changes Flamethrower into 45 particles with 2 damage each.

Not sure if that helps...

Nah, it really doesn't. Because the system has changed, so has Quilava. No worries. I'll figure something out.

[RicePigeon]

• 252+ SpA Quilava Flamethrower (Base 90, 1 hit) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 168-200 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO
• 252+ SpA Quilava Flamethrower (Base 2, 45 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 270-360 (74.2 - 98.9%) -- Guaranteed 2HKO
• 252+ SpA Quilava Flamethrower (Base 1, 90 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 180-540 (49.5 - 148.4%) -- 48.9% chance to OHKO

 

Yeah the number of hits is clearly an issue here

[Trinitronity]

If the chances for an 2HKO are so high with "Base 2, 45 hits", then I do not want to imagine how high it would be with its original configuration (Base 1, 90 hits).

Hmm...how high are the chances for 2HKO with "Base 3, 30 hits" and "Base 5, 18 hits" respectively?