[Gen6] Competitive Discussion

[RicePigeon]

This thread is for serious competitive discussion only. Just to clarify, this thread isn't exclusively about the OU metagame. Discussion of other metagames (Ubers, UU, RU, NU, VGC, Doubles, and even Triples) is allowed.
 
Common Terminology:

• Tier - A term used to describe a categorization of a Pokemon species or form based on their competitive "worth". These are usually decided by how often a Pokemon is used on a team. It should be worth noting that Pokemon with more than one forme will have each of their forms tiered separately from each other. Each tier also consists of its own metagame.
   
• Metagame - The overall environment of competitive Pokemon. Each tier has its own metagame, which are dictated by that tier's top threats and playstyles. Each tier's metagame will permit the use of Pokemon found in lower level tiers (with the exception of the NU metagame, as there is no tier lower than NU) while simultaneously restricting Pokemon belonging to higher tiers (with the exception of the Ubers metagame, which currently allows all Pokemon).
   
• AG - short for "Anything Goes", AG is the spiritual successor to Ubers before it became its own tier instead of a banlist. As the name implies, anything goes. This means that nothing is banned and there are no clauses. Currently only one Pokemon exists in this "tier", which is Mega Rayquaza.
   
• Ubers - Derived from the german word über (lit. "above" or "over"), this tier was originally a global banlist in earlier generations before it evolved into its own tier in later generations. The Ubers tier consists of Pokemon that are typically broken, and consists of predominantly super legendary Pokemon (i.e.: Mewtwo, Lugia, Rayquaza, etc) but may also include Pokemon that have been banned from the OU tier for being either too powerful (i.e.: Mega Kangaskhan) or uncompetitive (i.e.: Mega Gengar). While the ubers tier consists of as little bans as possible, certain moves and abilities that are deemed uncompetitive (i.e.: Moody, OHKO moves) may still be banned from time to time. DUbers is the Doubles equivalent of Ubers, which has its own tier list separate from Singles Ubers.
   
• OU - Short for "Over Used", this is the default tier that many competitive players play in. Pokemon that belong to this tier are based on their usage in the OU metagame, which allows for the use of any Pokemon not belonging to the Ubers tier. Any Pokemon that has at least a 50% chance of appearing at least once out of 20 teams in the OU Metagame (or 3.41% of all OU teams) belong to the OU tier. Those Pokemon who do not make the 3.41% cutoff will then be allowed in the UU Metagame, where the process is repeated to determine their tiering. DOU is the Doubles equivalent of OU, which has its own tier list separate from Singles OU. In Pokemon Online, the OU cutoff is raised from 3.41% to 4.0%
   
• BL - Short for "Borderline". BL is not a tier, but a banlist for the UU metagame. BL consists of Pokemon that have failed to achieve 3.41% useage in the OU Metagame, but have been explicitly banned from UU for being either too powerful (i.e.: Mega Heracross) or uncompetitive (i.e.: Gothitelle). Pokemon that are BL cannot be used in the UU, RU, or NU metagames, and thus is treated as an extension of the OU tier. In Pokemon Online, the OU cutoff is raised from 3.41% to 4.0%
   
• UU - Short for "Under Used". Pokemon that belong to this tier are based on their usage in the UU metagame, which allows for the use of any Pokemon not belonging to the Ubers, OU, or BL tiers. Any Pokemon that has at least a 50% chance of appearing at least once out of 20 teams in the UU Metagame (or 3.41% of all UU teams) belong to the UU tier. Those Pokemon who do not make the 3.41% cutoff will then be allowed in the RU Metagame, where the process is repeated to determine their tiering. DUU is the Doubles equivalent of UU, which has its own tier list separate from Singles UU. In Pokemon Online, the UU cutoff is raised from 3.41% to 4.0%
   
• BL2 - Short for "Borderline 2". Just like BL, BL2 is a banlist for the RU metagame. BL2 consists of Pokemon that have failed to achieve 3.41% useage in the UU Metagame, but have been explicitly banned from RU for being either too powerful (i.e.: Tornadus) or uncompetitive. Pokemon that are BL2 cannot be used in the RU, or NU metagames, and thus is treated as an extension of the UU tier. In Pokemon Online, the UU cutoff is raised from 3.41% to 4.0%
   
• RU - Short for "Rarely Used". Pokemon that belong to this tier are based on their usage in the RU metagame, which allows for the use of any Pokemon not belonging to the Ubers, OU, BL, UU, or BL2 tiers. Any Pokemon that has at least a 50% chance of appearing at least once out of 20 teams in the RU Metagame (or 3.41% of all RU teams) belong to the RU tier. Those Pokemon who do not make the 3.41% cutoff will then be allowed in the NU Metagame. In Pokemon Online's tiering system, the RU tier is replaced with the functionally identical LU tier.
   
• LU - Short for "Lesser Used". Pokemon Online's equivalent to Smogon's RU tier. Pokemon that belong to this tier are based on their usage in the LU metagame, which allows for the use of any Pokemon not belonging to the Ubers, OU, BL, UU, or BL2 tiers. Any Pokemon that has at least 4.0% usage on all LU teams belong to the LU tier. Those Pokemon who do not make the 4.0% cutoff will then be allowed in the NU Metagame. In Smogon's tiering system, the LU tier is replaced with the functionally identical RU tier.
   
• BL3 - Short for "Borderline 3". Just like BL and BL2, BL3 is a banlist for the NU metagame. BL3 consists of Pokemon that have failed to achieve 3.41% useage in the RU/LU Metagames, but have been explicitly banned from NU for being either too powerful or uncompetitive. Pokemon that are BL3 cannot be used in the NU metagame, and thus is treated as an extension of the RU & LU tiers. In Pokemon Online, the LU cutoff is 4.0% instead of RU's 3.41% cutoff.
   
• NU - Short for "Never Used". Essentially the bottom tier of competitive Pokemon, Pokemon that belong to this tier are those who have failed to achieve at least 3.41% usage in all metagame tiers above NU. The NU Metagame allows for the use of any Pokemon not belonging to the Ubers, OU, BL, UU, BL2, RU/LU, or BL3 tiers.
   
• PU - Short for "Partially Used". A new tier that was first introduced as an unofficial tier in Gen 5, and later adopted as an official Smogon tier in Gen 6. Pokemon in this tier are those who have failed to achieve at least 3.41% usage in the NU Metagame. The PU Metagame allows for the use of any Pokemon not belonging to the Ubers, OU, BL, UU, BL2, RU, BL3, or NU tiers. Note that Pokemon Online's tiering system does not include an equivalent to the PU tier.
   
• LC - Short for "Little Cup", a format that was first introduced in Pokemon Stadium 2 and later in Pokemon Battle Revolution. Pokemon used in this format are all Level 5, and consists of Pokemon that are capable of evolving, but have not yet evolved. Currently, the following Pokemon are banned from use in LC:
  
  Additionally, the moves Sonic Boom and Dragon Rage are banned from use in LC.
   
• Counter - A counter refers to any Pokemon that is able to reliably switch in against a specific Pokemon 100% of the time, while also being able to beat that Pokemon or put it into a disadvantageous situation where it has no choice but to switch out.
  
  Examples:
  vs : Magnezone is a counter to Skarmory, as it can reliably switch in to any of Skarmory's attacks and reliably defeat it.
  vs : Chansey can reliably switch into any of Mega Charizard Y's attacks while healing more HP than Zard Y is able to deal in damage, forcing Mega Charizard Y to switch out, risk running out of PP, or die from Toxic damage.
   
• Check - A check refers to any Pokemon that cannot reliably switch in directly against a specific Pokemon 100% of the time, but when it does, it can beat that Pokemon or put it into a disadvantageous situation. Unlike a counter, these Pokemon require either more prediction to beat the Pokemon they are meant to check, or switching through an indirect switch such as through Volt Switch, U-turn, or after another Pokemon has fainted.
  
  Examples:
  vs : Tyranitar cannot reliably switch in directly to Mega Charizard Y as it risks being OHKOed by Focus Blast. However, Choice Scarf Tyranitar will be able to outspeed and OHKO Mega Charizard Y with Stone Edge.
  vs : Greninja is too frail to directly switch in to any of Terrakion's attacks, but it can reliably outspeed and OHKO any Terrakion that does not have Choice Scarf.
   
• VGC - Short for "Video Game Championships", the official Pokemon tournament that is held every year by The Pokemon Company International, which was first held in 2005 (when it was then known as "Journey Across America"). While the VGC format uses Double Battles, it is substantially different from regular Double Battles, as you are only allowed to choose 4 of the 6  Pokemon that you bring with you. While the Pokemon that are allowed at VGC differ from year to year, the VCG format usually bans Legendary Pokemon that are version mascots, as well as Event-only Pokemon. As of VGC 2014, only Pokemon that appear in the Central Kalos Pokédex from #001 to #150, Coastal Kalos Pokédex from #001 to #153, or Mountain Kalos Pokédex from #001 to #147 are allowed, and the following Pokemon are banned:
  

 

Competitive Pokemon Resources:

• Smogon - The oldest go-to website for competitive Pokemon play. Many players play by their rules and tiers. Although their primary focus is Singles OU, they do provide information on other metagames as well.
• Nuggetbridge - Founded by former Smogon members (as well as a former Smogon admin), Nuggetbridge is to Nintendo's official VGC competition as Smogon is to OU Singles. Site includes various articles on Nintendo's official format.
• Pokemon Showdown! - Web-based multi-generation battle simulator, that currently supports all 6 generations of Pokemon games. UPDATE: Now supports Gen 6 Triples as of 7/14/14.
• Pokemon Online - Alternative battle simulator formerly supported by Smogon which predates Showdown. Currently supports Gen 5 and Gen 6 battles.
• Pokemon Laboratory - Formerly known as Shoddybattle, a simulator that was formerly supported by Smogon during the DPPt era. Currently only supports Gen 4 battles, it has now been superceded by other simulators such as Showdown and Pokemon Lab, the former of which also supports Gen 4 battles.
• Pokemon Netbattle - Originally programmed by TV's Ian and Smogon's founder chaos, Netbattle is one of the oldest Pokemon battle simulators, dating back to the GSC era, where it supported both Gen 1 and Gen 2 battles. Gen 3 support was later added, when it became Smogon's official battle simulator at the time. It fell into disuse when Diamond & Pearl was released, where Shoddybattle (later known as Pokemon Laboratory) became the preferred simulator. An unofficial update known as Netbattle Supremacy was later released with Gen 4 support, but has fallen into disuse.
• GSBot / RSBot - An old, text based battle simulator, GSBot was a script created for mIRC that was used to host Gen 2 battles over irc chatrooms. Unlike most simulators, GSBot was purely text based, and utilized command lines to initiate, as well as conduct, Pokemon battles. It was later updated with Gen 3 support, where it was then renamed RSBot. It fell out of use when Netbattle, the only competing battle simulator at the time, also added Gen 3 support and later became Smogon's official battle simulator.
• Porygon's Big Show - The oldest Pokemon battle simulator to date, PBS is a web based Gen 1 battle simulator. However, it does contain various inconsistencies with the Gen 1 games. For instance, Focus Energy uses Pokemon Stadium's mechanics, while Hyper Beam still uses the original RBY mechanics. Despite its age and inconsistencies, it was still used, causing it to receive an update in 2010, nearly a decade after its initial release. However, it currently does not support any Pokemon games other than Gen 1.

[RicePigeon]

To get things started:

 

1.) Smogon just released the July 2014 issue of their online magazine "The Smog", which can be viewed here. Has an interesting article on Greninja and Talonflame use in OU, as well as some theorymonning stuff (like if Gen 6 kept permanent weather).

2.) Suspect voting on Aegislash will begin this Saturday, July 26th

[TheAnswer]

Also VGC can be discussed here as well here is a good site for more info on VGC 

 

http://nuggetbridge.com/

[RicePigeon]

Adding tier list and resource pages to the first post. Ubers, OU, and BL are done. Everything else is still WIP.

[RicePigeon]

So remember when Mega Gengar got banned from OU?

Well, for the first time ever in history, we may end up getting a Pokemon banned from ubers...

 

EDIT: Just completed adding the tier lists for UU, BL2, RU, and BL3

[DarkWolf13]

So for those who use M. Gengar in their teams may have to find an alternative. The thing with Shadow Tag is that Mega Gengar can take advantage of it and use the Hypnosis + Dream Eater combo to beat down helpless Pokemon, if any of those players use that combo, which has a 40% chance of failing due to Hypnosis' bad accuracy.

[RicePigeon]

Mega Gengar doesn't even rely on Hypnosis + Dream Eater. Protect and Perish Song is more like it, and that's only the tip of the iceberg.

 

What makes Mega Gengar so threatening is that, unlike Wobbuffet and Gothitelle, it has an excellent movepool, so you can pretty much customize it to whatever specific threat your team cannot handle and it will eliminate that threat 100% of the time (often leading to Extreme Killer Arceus sweeps) and there's nothing the opponent can do about it.

[PlasmoidThunder]

On the current subject of Aegislash getting banned...

 

Lol.

[RicePigeon]

WCS/VGC uses the Doubles format, which Aegislash is perfectly fine in and nowhere near as broken as he is in singles (for now).

 

Because Nintendo/Gamefreak doesn't care about singles, other than the fact that all the main series games have used Singles for in-game (aside from Colosseum/XD, seriously why dont they just do that again?)

 

EDIT: Speaking of doubles, went ahead and added Smogon's Doubles tierlist (only Ubers, OU, and UU exist atm). Also fleshed out the Singles tiers to include banned and restricted moves/items/abilities.

[RicePigeon]

Aegislash ban voting is now underway.

 

Results of the vote will be made available by Sunday, August 3rd. The tier list in the OP will also be updated in the event Aegislash does get banned from Singles OU.

[DJ HANNIBALROYCE]

Aegislash is annoying as fuck...as far as gengar...i gotta perfect IV,EV'ed one i should start training. that perish song strategy is gold.

[DarkWolf13]

Aegislash has been banned to Ubers.

 

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-suspect-process-round-5-voting.3513515/#post-5639097

[RicePigeon]

Tier list in 1st post updated to reflect the recent Aegislash ban.

[RicePigeon]

Updated first post to include Smogon's queued suspect tests on Mega Mawile, Thundurus-I, Landorus-I, and Mega Charizard X.

 

Note that there is no suspect test currently underway, only that Smogon has confirmed that these 4 pokemon ARE going to be suspected within the next month.

EDIT: Due to July's monthly RU usage, coupled with the previous 2 months of RU useage, Shiftry has moved up from NU to RU.

[RicePigeon]

 

Mega Mawile suspect test begins.

[RicePigeon]

Not really Tiering related, but Smogon just recently promoted/demoted some Pokemon in the OU viability rankings:

 

Important note: Tiers dictate how often a Pokemon is used, viability dictates how "good" a Pokemon is in a tier's environment. In most cases there is a natural tendency for higher tiered Pokemon to also rank high in OU viability, but then you have stuff thats OU like Togekiss ranking at C+ while UU stuff like Hippowdon ranking in A. Just to reiterate; viability should not be confused with tiers, and just because a Pokemon has a certain viability ranking in one tier's metagame does not mean it will necessarily have the same ranking in another tier's metagame.

 

That being said,

 

: A+ ---> S

: A+ ---> S

Azumarill was decided by the majority of the posters in [the XY OU Viability] thread to be an S rank threat. Keldeo, while it was a more tough call..., most people were convinced about Keldeo being worthy of S rank. These two are some of the most metagame defining threats and some of the easiest Pokemon to slap on a team that pull their weight on any kind of matchup.

 

: A ---> A+

: A ---> A+

Aegislash gone, simple as that. Aegislash was one of the biggest problems for both Latios and Latias, and without it they are free to terrorize offensive teams again.

 

: A ---> A+

Heatran is able to run a variety of sets, sets that perform vastly different from each other, while every single one of them is very effective. Stealth Rock, Choice Scarf, and stallbreaking Heatran are all very effective sets that have different amount of checks and counters and support their team in different ways. Heatran's versatility and potency on each of those sets is what makes it worthy of A+ rank.

: A ---> A+

With the metagame becoming less and less prepared for Mega Charizard Y, its wallbreaking set alone can bring entire teams to their knees, as a lot of teams nowadays lack good Mega Char Y checks. Add the newly discovered Will-O-Wisp set that can handle threats such as Mega Mawile and Landorus, and you have an A+ rank Pokemon right there.

: A+ ---> A

: A+ ---> A+ (No Change)

Tyranitar's is not on par with the rest of the A+ Pokemon. All of Tyranitar's sets have serious limitations, such as being forced out by all of the S rank, and the three main reasons for using Tyranitar are for Pursuit, sand support, and to check birdspam. Scarf sets are decent revenge killers and Pursuit trappers, but are easy to check and can be taken advantage of easily, not to mention that they fail to outspeed the threats that you would want to use a Scarf user for in the first place, Mega Char X, Dragonite, and Mega Gyarados, meaning that you either have to pack another Scarf user, or multiple checks to those Pokemon, which heavily restricts team building. As for Smooth Rock sets, providing Sand, Pursuit, and Stealth Rock is nice, but Pursuit is useful only in certain match-ups, and Tyranitar is not a very good Stealth Rock setter anyway, as a lot of Defog / RS users can beat it, such as Mandibuzz, Excadrill, and Starmie. Basically, providing sand is support Tyranitar's biggest selling point, which is not enough to put it in A+ rank.

 

Mega Tyranitar stays in A+ for being a powerful, bulky sweeper capable of wrecking most threats in the metagame.

: A+ ---> A

Aegislash is gone, so one of the biggest reasons to use Bisharp on offensive teams is now gone. Also, a lot of great Pokemon able to counter Bisharp have risen in usage, such as SpD Mega Charizard X and WoW Mega Charizard Y. Finally, Bisharp faces huge competition with Mega Mawile, an S rank threat that has a similarly powerful Sucker Punch, actual wallbreaking abilities, and an amazing defensive typing. Pursuit and Defiant are nice, but not good enough to keep Bisharp in A+.

: A- ---> A

Checks a ton of offensive Pokemon with its typing and Ice Shard, is very hard to wall for anything not named stall, can lure Pokemon such as Gyarados and Rotom-W with Freezy Dry, and is also a great SR user.

: B+ ---> A-

Mew is one of the most underrated Pokemon in OU, in fact it's so underrated that it's not even OU by usage. Great bulk allows it to check extremely dangerous threats for defensive teams, such as Mega Medicham, Landorus, and Latios, while it's Knock Off + Taunt set is just a pain to deal with for most teams. It softens up teams consistently, has good match-ups against a lot of Pokemon due to WoW + Taunt + recovery + decent Speed + great bulk, and also can use a great Defog set. An amazing stallbreaker and Defog user on par if not better than hole punchers such as Kyurem-B.

: C+ ---> B

With Aegislash gone, Starmie is finally once again a reliable spinner, and one of the best spinners for offensive teams. Unlike Excadrill, Starmie outspeeds most offensive Pokemon and also beats most SR users (Heatran, Terrakion, Landorus-T, Garchomp), while also being very hard to wall, and having a decent amount of versatility between its coverage moves (Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are both good choices for the last slot), abilities (Natural Cure helps Starmie check Heatran, SubToxic Gliscor, and cure Thunder Wave after KOing Thundurus, while Analytic secures important 2HKOes) and even movesets (Offensive and defensive with Reflect Type).

 

: B+ ---> A-

: B+ ---> A-

: B- ---> B

Mega Heracross, Mega Medicham, and Mega Alakazam are all much more viable now for one reason and one reason only: Aegislash is gone.

: Unranked ---> C-

Bronzong checks a unique set of Pokemon, the most important of which are Mega Gardevoir, Sand Rush Excadriil, Mega Pinsir, Latios, Latias, and Mega Tyranitar, which makes it a viable choice on teams that want those Pokemon covered, especially as a pivot and SR setter on some offensive teams. It has a ton of flaws, but the fact that it deals with some extremely dangerous threats that don't have a lot of good checks with Aegislash gone (Mega Gardy, Latios, Latias) makes it worth putting in the viability ranking list.

: Unranked ---> D

Mega Medicham, Mega Heracross, Mega Pinsir, Mega Gardevoir, and Terrakion are some really dangerous Pokemon that stall teams cannot adequately handle, all of which are Pokemon that Doublade counters as long as it's paired with a cleric. This makes it good enough to get ranked.

: B- ---> B

Despite being RU by useage, Alomomola is one of the best, if not THE best, WishPasser in OU, with good mixed bulk, solid typing, and an amazing ability, that takes part in a lot of good defensive cores, and can even support bulky offensive Pokemon on balanced teams. It has notable flaws, mainly lack of offensive presence, but its pros are enough to overcome them with team support, and in the end, Chansey has that flaw too and she is in A- right?

: C+ ---> B-

Skarmory is seen on most stall teams, and Magnezone eliminates it and allows Pokemon such as Mega Pinsir Sand Rush Excadrill to sweep. Also, the ability to trap and KO Mega Scizor is huge for Mega Gardevoir, a Pokemon that is getting better and better with Aegislash's absence. All in all, Magnezone supports some amazing Pokemon right now, and this support is good enough to warrant a placement in B- rank.

: C ---> B-

With Aegislash leaving from OU, Celebi's Psychic typing is not such a big hindrance, allowing the little pixie to take advantage of its perks over its fellow bulky Grass-types to a greater extend. When it comes to checking threats that Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn, and Amoonguss can't, look no further than Landorus, Excadrill, Keldeo, Latios, Latias, and Rotom-W. Thanks to Natural Cure and reliable recovery, as well as lack of weakness to Psychic, 4x weakness to Fire (HP Fire), weakness to Fighting, and a resistance to Ground, Celebi takes care of all those Pokemon better than the other Grass-types can. Also, Celebi has a big support movepool, with moves such as Thunder Wave, Perish Song (fuck off CM Suicune), Stealth Rock, Baton Pass, and Heal Bell, so it can be a better supporter and pivot than the other Grass-types (well not a better supporter than Ferrothorn, but when it comes to both supporting and pivoting, Celebi has the upper hand). Finally, Celebi is the fastest bulky Grass-type in OU, which coupled with recovery and decent coverage make Celebi a decent tank. All in all, Celebi's flaws have started becoming less relevant, and its advantages have started becoming more relevant, which is why it rose two whole sub ranks.

 

Original post: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-viability-ranking-thread-v2-last-update-on-post-4897.3502428/page-196#post-5657932

[RicePigeon]

Combusken has been banned from NU, and now joins Sigilyph in BL3

Original post: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-nu-tiering-info.3509431/#post-5652853

[RicePigeon]

More OU viability updates from Smogon:
 
: A >> A+
: A- >> A
: A- >> A
: A- >> A
Aegislash getting banned was a blessing for those four, and with its absence there is no denying how strong and influential Pokemon they are. Everyone [here on Smogon] agrees with this...

: A+ >> A
Mega Scizor is an excellent Pokemon but it finds it hard to sweep in this metagame, so it prefers taking defensive and utility roles, such as checking offensive Pokemon with Bullet Punch, pivoting with U-turn, providing utility with Defog, and checking physical attackers. Those roles are great and all, but Mega Scizor is not threatening enough to be in A+, which causes it to be taken advantage by some really dangerous Pokemon such as Mega Charizard X and Y, Keldeo, Thundurus, Mega Mawile, Mega Gyarados, and Talonflame.
 
A (No change)
Tyranitar is [no longer] A+ material in this metagame. the problem is that all the "good" sets don't do the thing it's supposed to do most of the time: provide sand support. scarf tyranitar is imo its best non smooth rock set and it's okay, but thats why it's A and not any lower. scarf allows you to kill some dangerous threats such as pinsir, charizard, gardevoir, weakened medicham/heracross and slightly weakened +2 sharp/maw. focus sash stealth rock is an ok lead but kinda eclipsed by terrakion since the sand isnt enough to warrant using it if you're using it in a suicidial fashion since it only lasts for 5 turns. and fast taunt/close combat are so much more valuable than anything tyrantiar can offer too. smooth rock provides sand support but the efficiency at which it does this is pathetic lol. it has 0 offensive presence since it kinda needs all the bulk it can get to come in repeatedly (and, no, for anyone who says that base 134 attack and base 95 special attack are enough uninvested, they really arent in xy. like 80% to sdef gliscor with ice beam and 37% to keldeo with eq is not "enough"). it also has probably one of the worst 4 moveslot syndromes known to man since it wants stealth rock, fire blast for mawile/bisharp/scizor/ferro(mawile being the most important here), ice beam for scor and lando t, stone edge for zards and mandibuzz and probably lots of other shit, earthquake for terrakion (this is a lot more important than it sounds since otherwise terrakion comes in for absolute free instead of 75% and kills off your team one by one), pursuit to punish lati/politoed because what does coming in do if you can't even trap them and probably a lot of other moves. thats 6 moves minimum and, while having a 4mss also means being unpredictable it really doesn't for tyranitar as most of the time it will just be your cookie cutter sr/beam/blast/stab set because it kind of HAS to pass up all these other great moves to use something thats at least halfway reliable at covering most stuff. add to that the fact that tyranitar has 0 recovery, often switches into shit like latios without even having pursuit which means it has to do it more than once and its general vulnerability to getting worn down and you have a terrible sand support pokemon that people like to oversell for its ability to do... something? i still dont know what this does well and even on sand offense id honestly prefer hippowdon to have some kind of safety net against shit like mega pinsir/thund thats not called "revenge killing with excadrill". I honestly don't even think its sand support set is anywhere above A- and it's only its diversity and ability to run other sets somewhat effectively (and bluff the megatar which makes it seem a lot more dangerous than it is when you have gyara on your team for example) that pushes it to A. tyranitars time at the top of the metagame is over, and anyone who doesnt realize this is honestly kidding themselves because it honestly can't keep up with all the power this gen. i mean, i hate arguments like this, but fuck it can barely even handle 1 pokemon in S-rank that should give you a good idea of how many pokemon in this metagame smack it around (zard wins with outrage against anything but scarf, thund wins with focus blast/superpower vs anything but scarf or gimmicks like chople, land only loses to scarf ice beam really, azu and keldeo and mawile win regardless of what it has except for gimmicks such as physdef counter/specs fire blast but you get my point, the sand support aka the "good" set just doesnt have what it takes to keep up with this metagame).
 
: A >> A-
Mandibuzz struggles with the new offensive threats that are becoming popular, namely Terrakion, Mega Heracross, and Mega Gardevoir, meaning that it's becoming a bit less relevant as a defensive threat. However, it still handles quite a big number of dangerous Pokemon (Landorus, Garchomp, Talonflame, Excadrill, Mega Scizor, regular Gyarados, DD Mega Charizard X, Dragonite, and Breloom), and provides lots of utility with Defog, Taunt, Knock Off, and Toxic, which is why it didn't drop in B+.
 
: A- >> A
Excellent stallbreaker, excellent Defog user, very hard to kill, fast enough to keep up with offensive monsters such as Mega Heracross, few exploitable weaknesses, what else do you want me to say?
 
: B+ >> A-
With the resurgence of the three offensive Megas that Aegislash held back (Medi, Garde, Hera), giving up your Mega slot on Mega Venusaur is not always easy, so Amoonguss is here to fill this gap. It deals with the two most threatening Water-types in OU, Keldeo and Azumarill, has Spore and Stun Spore to make it somewhat threatening, has good all around bulk and a great defensive typing, and it never dies thanks to Regenerator. This means that it can reliably check many big threats such as Thundurus, Mega Gyarados, Rotom-W, Gengar, Terrakion, Gliscor (With HP Ice), and Breloom, and has become one of the premiere defensive Grass-type of XY OU.
 
: B+ >> A-
Terrakion counter? Check. Mega Medicham counter? Check. Mega Charizard X counter? Check. Hidden Power Grass-less Greninja counter? Check. Anyway, you get the drill, Slowbro walls like half the Pokemon out of the S and A ranka atm, is not easy to take advantage of thanks to access to three kind of status moves and a decent SpA stat, and never dies thanks to Regenerator and Slack Off. Definitely one of the best defensive Water-types in the metagame.
 
: B >> B+
Alomomola slowly but steadily has proved how good of a Wish passer it is, keeping healthy a ton of good defensive Pokemon that lack recovery, such as Heatran, Tyranitar, Mega Ampharos, Chesnaught, Rhyperior, and Victini. It also has double status to make the opponent think twice before switching in, as well as Regenerator to allow it to focus on healing its teammates instead of itself. It also checks a lot of stuff, and even though set up sweepers are its bane, there are plenty of defensive and offensive Pokemon that pair well with Alomomola and can deal with those.
 
: B >> C+
Now that the hype about Assault Vest Conk has died down, the ugly truth has started revealing: Conkeldurr is not a great, or even a good Pokemon, it's just ok. It lacks recovery and thus gets worn down very fast, its slow as ass and almost always needs to take a hit first except when facing Pokemon weak to Mach Punch, is easy to wall with threatening MEvos being everywhere, and in top of this three MEvos that can take advantage of Conkeldurr easily have risen in usage and viability over the last weeks, namely Mega Medicham, Mega Gardevoir, and Mega Heracross, all of which can switch with relative ease into Conkeldurr and take advantage of it.
 
: B >> B-
Gothitelle is an ok Pokemon, but it's kinda niche for B. It provides no defensive synergy on a team, which puts a big strain on teambuilding and shows that you can't just slap Gothitelle on a team and call it a day. Also, there are a lot of scary wallbreakers that are able to fuck up stall teams, so Gothitelle lost one of her previous roles. Her main function is partnering up with sweepers and removing their counters, which is good enough for B-, but too one sided for B.
 
: B+ >> B
Zapdos doesn't like the effects that Aegislash's absence from the metagame has had. Terrakion, Mega Gardevoir, and Mega Heracross are all Pokemon that scare Zapdos shitless, and even though Zapdos is a good check to birdspam teams that have started becoming a bit more popular, her worse performance against almost any other kind of offensive team means it's not B+ material anymore.
 
: B- >> B
Magnezone can trap almost any Steel-type for a team, can outspeed and check many offensive Pokemon with a Scarf set (Keldeo, Terrakion, Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, Mega Gardevoir, Dragonite, Landorus, Garchomp (you need HP Ice for the last three)), has Volt Switch to keep momentum even when it's choiced, and has great bulk and resistances to even switch into some of the Pokemon it wants to trap or revenge kill. It's reliable and a great offensive support Pokemon that deserves to be in B rank.
 
: B- >> C+
Mostly outclassed by Clefable outside of a strong Hyper Voice and the ability to use a Specs set, which is why it's falling to C+ and not any lower.
 
: Unranked >> C
Can check/counter Greninja, Clefable, Latios, Latias, Mega Gardevoir, Thundurus, Mega Venusaur, Kyurem-B, Mega Alakazam, and a few other threats, has useful stuff to do against the Pokemon it walls, such as passing Wishes or spreading status, and also has a very decent Scarf set. C is good for it for now, it may rise a bit higher in the future.
 
: C >> C+
Some people have compared it to Mew, and fairly so. However, Cresselia has a few things over it: huge bulk, Levitate (which lets it counter Pokemon that Mew can't, such as Excadrill and Garchomp), and Lunar Dance (a great way to support sweepers). Those three traits make Cresselia C+ rank worthy, as it's quite a useful Pokemon on defensive teams for its ability to handle a plethora of dangerous Pokemon, while also being able to fit on some bulky offense teams thanks to Lunar Dance.
 
: C- >> D
: C- >> D
: C >> D
Mostly outclassed Dragon-types that have no use in OU outside of some very niche roles on DragMag teams.
 
: C+ >> B-
One of stall's few counters to Mega Medicham, great stallbreaker that also beats some dangerous stallbreakers such as Gengar and Mew.
 
: C- >> C
Aegislash leaves from OU and Hawulucha becomes much more viable, as it's now able to clean up much easier against all kinds of teams. Yes it needs support in order to set up and because priority users hurt it, but not that much support to put it in the same rank as way more situational Pokemon such as Ludicolo, Tornadus, and Dugtrio.
 
: C- >> D
Put in D rank for now [pending] a proper explanation as to why [it] should stay ranked.
 
: B- >> B
Mega Medicham and Mega Gardevoir hard check is crazy good for stall and defensive teams in general, TauntWoW is a really cool set. It also helps that it has great synergy with most Wish passers, such as Clefable, Alomomola, and Chansey. Finally, it's offensive sets are cool too, especially a recent innovation i have been hearing about, SubPuP with V-Create and Bolt Strike.
 
: C >> C+
Better than most C rank stuff mostly, it's hard to fit on rain teams but its combination of power and Speed under rain is absurd, not to mention that you hardly need any prediction when using (just a lucky charm because fuck Hydro Pump).
 
: Unranked >> C-
Niche rain mon similarly to Torn-I, also can be used on offensive teams that struggle with a lot of popular mons, such as Keldeo, Azumarill, Terrakion, Clefable, Suicune, Alomomola, and Breloom. It's also not that easy to wall with Aegislash gone, so Drain Punch + Gunk Shot / Ice Punch + Sucker Punch is great coverage.
 
: Unranked >> D
Good Mega Medicham and Mega Heracross check that also checks a lot of physical Pokemon and has a decent amount of support options, such as Heal Bell, Thunder Wave, and Roar. Also hits hard enough to beat a lot of the Pokemon it checks.
 
Potential Rank Changes in Next Update:
(currently up for discussion)
: B >> B+
: B >> B+
: B >> B+
: C >> C+
: B+ >> A-
: C+ >> B-
 
Original post: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-viability-ranking-thread-v2-last-update-on-post-5189.3502428/page-208#post-5676610

[RicePigeon]

Since the next tier update will be occurring next month (September), I'm going to be posting my opinions on potential tier changes that may or may not happen:
 
: UU >> OU
I've been seeing alot of Mew on OU teams lately, especially paired with Landorus-T. Its rise in viability is also a testament to this (not to mention I got wrecked by a team using the aforementioned Stallbreaker Mew + Lando-T pair).
 
: UU >> OU
: BL >> OU
Mega Heracross's massive rise in usage in the wake of Aegislash's banning should be self explanitory. Because of how Smogon's tiering system works, if Mega Heracross rises to OU by usage then so will regular Heracross. The reason for this is because Showdown's usage statistics does not discriminate between base forms and Mega Evolutions; it tiers them together unless the Mega has been explicitly banned from a lower tier, which is currently the case with Heracross and Mega Heracross. If the Mega is OU by usage, then so is the base form, regardless of how much it sucks in OU or not.
 
: UU >> OU
I would personally like to see this happen. Not so much because I want to see Starmie rejoin Gengar in the "OU every gen" club, but because its viability has skyrocketed in the wake of Aegislash's ban to the point where its now a viable spinner again.
 
: OU >> UU
As much as I don't want this to happen, I think it's inevitable. I've taken a liking to Sylveon, but Clefable just offers alot more. Even I've switched over to using Clefable over Sylveon.
 
: OU >> UU
Not really so much of a personal opinion thing, but looking at Togekiss's usage statistics for the months of June and July, it failed to make the 3.41% cutoff both times. The fact that it's currently ranked at C+ along with Sylveon should testify to this.
 
: Untiered >> UU
Its currently allowed only in OU for the time being since it was only recently made available in Japan, but its at C rank in OU and, like Togekiss, it hasnt made the 3.41% cutoff. I don't see it dropping any lower than UU though, since UU is cluttered with Fire types and it can be a decent check to Hydreigon.
 
: OU >> UU
Another Pokemon that I feel is going to drop. Its viability has been on a steady decline with each update. It shares many problems with Mega Blastoise in that its worn down easily, not to mention that Mega Blastoise is also ranked C+ AND is UU.
 
: OU >> RU
: OU >> Ubers
I don't think I need to explain this one. Of course, Mawile won't reach NU immediately. First, since its Mega Form has been consistently in the top 20 for the past two months (and is still massively used today), it will stay in OU for the next 3 months, where it will undoubtedly drop down to UU in December. From there, Mawile will spend 3 months in the UU environment until it drops to RU in March 2015. By then the metagame in all tiers will be substantially different than they are now since Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire will be introducing new Megas and tutor moves, but I don't see things improving for Mawile unless its Mega gets unbanned from OU after ORAS. After another 3 months, it will be determined whether Mawile will stay in RU due to its Steel/Fairy typing, or if it will drop down to NU, so we won't know its ultimate fate until June.
 
: RU >> OU
: UU >> OU
Looking at July's OU use statistics, Amoongus and Slowbro have both achieved a 3.56756% and 3.53468% usage, respectively. Both Pokemon are ones that I have commonly seen on defensive teams, including myself in Slowbro's case. The fact that Amoongus has more or less replaced Mega Venusaur on defensive teams (using defensive Mega Charizard X for the Mega slot) should be a testament to this. Regenerator is just THAT good. And that's not even taking into account that both Pokemon have recently risen up to A- ranking.
 
: OU >> BL/UU
Birdspam is on the rise again. Scolipede only obtained a 1.87151% use last month, which isn't a good sign. I can't recall if this thing was banned from UU before, but if it was, then it will simply fall back into BL instead of UU, kind of like what happened to Manaphy. Its still a viable B+ Pokemon, don't get me wrong.
 
: OU >> UU
Quagsire has only barely missed the 3.41% cutoff for the past two months. It may or may not drop back into UU, but it does face fierce competition from Slowbro, Alomomola, and Suicune on defensive teams, especially in Slowbro's case as he can effectively handle Terrakion and Keldeo, who have both risen in both usage and viability.

[RicePigeon]

Some discussion on Smogon has arisen regarding some additional viability ranking changes:
 
Potential OU Viability Rank Changes in Next Update (Addendum):
(currently up for discussion)
: S >> A+
: A >> A+
: A >> A+
: A >> A+
: A- >> A
: A >> A-
: A- >> B+
: A- >> B+
: B >> B+
: B >> B+
: D >> Unranked

 

 

EDIT: Yanmega and Zoroark have been officially banned from RU. First post updated.

[RicePigeon]

Rest in Piss 10/11/13 - 08/22/14

[PlasmoidThunder]

Smogon wants stall. Remove anything that breaks stall.

 

Or at least, that's the impression I'm getting.

[RicePigeon]

Offensive teams don't like taking a hit from MegaMawile either, I don't see what you're trying to insinuate.

And before anyone mentions anything about burning MegaMawile, I have one word for you: Substitute.

[TheAnswer]

Baton pass is getting shit now cause of the latest team making the rounds so expect no baton pass anymore rip scolepede, Espeon, and Smeargle.

[RicePigeon]

Updated the tier lists in the first post to reflect the currently ongoing suspect tests:

 

OU: No current ongoing suspect tests. Mega Charizard X is dropping to A+ viability, which makes it ineligible for a suspect test in OU.

UU: Volcarona and Manaphy were recently tested and were voted to stay in BL. Hawlucha is currently undergoing a suspect test to see if it should be allowed back in UU. Zygarde will not be suspect tested until after the tier changes next month, but will remain on the list as queued.

RU: After the Yanmega and Zoroark bans, Meloetta use has spiked to the point where it is now being considered for a suspect test.

NU: Gurdurr, Omastar, and Spiritomb are not being currently suspect tested in NU anymore, but their use in RU means that they will rise to RU next month.