Memories in MUGEN topic...

[GohanSSM2]

I have been thinking about many things that have happened in MUGEN over my many years and I got thinking that maybe a personal "Memories of MUGEN" type history topic might help bring people together somehow. The idea behind this is kind of a history type "I remember when..." and go from there. Could even be "I remember now" really. Memories happen all the time so why not now too... Game related like "I remember playing [such and such character]" or "I first found out about MUGEN through [such and such] site" or "I remember when [so and so] did [such and such]". That kind of stuff. But the nice part is that with the poster's name along the side, you know where the info in the post came from. Anyway, just thinking of something different and see how it goes I guess...

[GohanSSM2]

But I first came to MUGEN through a site called DBZ 2057 or something like that which had a full MUGEN DBZ game. After that I also came across EmuBoarding's site with MUGENow. I started the Bojack character around the middle of June 2000 and had my first release on June 23, 2000. A lot of things were going on in the MUGEN community, but it had one main hub, TESTP. TESTP was the official beta testing forum for the game. As such, most of what went on, went on at TESTP. Most of MUGEN's early history started there and after the forum closed much of that history was lost or forgotten. Anyway, the top posters at TESTP before it closed were Infiinma (over 1000 posts), The Necromancer (over 1000 posts), Kirby (900+ posts) and myself who had about 826 or more posts. I'm just wondering if it might be a good time to relive the past but also look forward to the future as well. But enough about me, what about you?

[GohanSSM2]

But really I was kind of wondering if people may be interested in the stories of the creation of the "MK fatality codes" in MUGEN as well as the rest of the full "kuzu-bei" story as well... Post yes if you are... But also, feel free to add your own stories about MUGEN as well.

[Ryon]

oh ho ho I'd like to hear the Kuzu-Bei story, I remember that name but i vaguely remember the reason why i know it so well. Like you (from a spanish friend who told me about it) I first found Emuboarding's MugeNow website. and got hold of Dragon Ball Z Mugen Edition. and loved it. My fondest memories were of IMP Italian Mugen Team, and Street Mugen. those guys almost always had what i wanted. I never knew what or visited any forums back then, so i was always out of the loop until i randomly found a new creation. Necromancer as in Flowagirl?

[Arias]

I remember when I started learning the mugen stuff back in 2008,(didn't released anything until past year though & I've been in it since 2003 )

I started showing edits of characters and stages then posted a video of them in YT sayin "hey dude look what I've accomplished :D" usually for the dude who was helping me to learn, followed by the row of comments of a bunch of unknown to me users saying that it was horrible and that I should kill myself for making such monstrosity......good times.

[GohanSSM2]

Yup, Ryon, Necromancer as in FlowaGirl. Also, Infiinma as in DavidGee (read MK Project stuff). Anyway, I got sidetracked last night and ended up driving until about 4am this morning. I had a lot of stuff come up at work yesterday. But why not at least one of the old stories. I guess kuzu-bei first... kuzu-bei was the one that created Zangya, Shin, and then the original Broli for MUGEN. The one who developed the 'famed' DBZ free floating fly coding. I never asked, but also there was a Maid San character that also had flying in the coding at the same time as kuzu-bei made his free floating DBZ characters. Back in the day, several people asked if people had "permission" to use someone else's coding. I happened to think about The Necromancer and the remake of Broli, and so I asked Necro if he had permission (which of course led to posts by others of "Necro has helped so many people that he doesn't need to post permission" and that kind of stuff). After this post of mine on the TESTP board (and my trying to contact kuzu-bei directly for quite a while) I got a surprise e-mail from kuzu-bei himself. I didn't get a reply about "Maid San" but I did get some actual information from kuzu-bei himself. Very disturbing information however. The truth was that kuzu-bei had been hacked and he no longer had access to his old email or his website. Kuzu-bei also named his hackers (which I won't release publicly). But also kuzu-bei told me to drop asking about permission and such because kuzu-bei was afraid of being hacked again. Kuzu-bei did say he had talkied with EmuBoarding and gave EmuBoarding permission to use kuzu-bei's stuff in MugeNow so long as EmuBoarding put a link to kuzu-bei's site in case there were any updates. Kuzu-bei also did say that he did not give permission, but also did not deny permission to use his fly coding. All kuzu-bei said he wished was to be left alone and not to be hacked again. But after being hacked kuzu-bei left and he told me that it didn't matter if people used his codes, sprites, or whatever. Kuzu-bei just wanted to be left alone and not be hacked anymore. that was actually why the originator of the DBZ free floating flying characters left MUGEN back in the day..

[GohanSSM2]

Cool margatroid. Cool Ryon. Thanks. The MK fatality is a bit long and involved so I'm kinda trying to figure out how to best do that one. But the MK Fatality beginnings involved The Necromancer (I believe), ChairmanKaga (Willoughby Jackson's real life brother), Willoughby Jackson, myself and possibly Tin's Fernandeath. Back at TESTP forum it was a kind of unwritten rule "do not post coding on the board". Around mid august / september 2000 was an odd post from someone named Willoughby Jackson in the TESTP help area. Willoughby posted that he was working on some coding and needed some help figuring some things out. I asked Willoughby if he could send it to my email and Willoughby said that he was at his work and couldn't get or send emails without possibly getting in trouble at work. So, we broke the unwritten "do not post coding" rule at TESTP. I helped Willoughby correct some stuff and then we started working on a project involving whoever, to help do some MK Fatality type coding in MUGEN, if fatalities were possible in MUGEN. Willoughby came to the right guy. I was also working on Hyper Buu at the time and besides Hyper Buu, the only other character at the time in MUGEN that could "blank out the opponent" was Tin's Fernandeath (and Tin didn't speak english very well). But a huge pile of coding ideas from myself, Willoughby Jackson, Chairmankaga, The Necromancer ensued with my drawing up the outline of how to go about (in several different ways) the MK Fatality type coding for MUGEN. In this flurry of posting was also the "coming up through the floor discussion, which at the time the only way to do it was to cut the sprites up to make it appear like the character was coming through the floor. The other part of this involved using throw coding to get the "Come over here" stuff with the javelin rope. Helper projectiles and the like were discussed as well as "code for a hit as well as a miss" in the throws. Velocities, HitDefs, Kill = in the HitDefs, sprpriority, and so on. A very lengthy discussion which ChairmanKaga, The Necromancer, and myself understood but Willoughby had a hard time with it. But Willoughby was determined to get working Fatality coding to do Mortal Kombat Fatalities in MUGEN, but it was also apparent that Willoughby was not as good of a coder as his brother, ChairmanKaga, was. I also remember in these many, many posts that both ChairmanKaga and myself kept telling Willoughby that "you know, a lot of people are gonna want to use this stuff and ask questions and email you and such. Are you sure about this?" And Willoughby kept saying yes, so we kept going. But yes, many of the techniques used for the original MK MUGEN fatality codes were derived from rewriting coding from my Hyper Buu Candy Munch move (which Willoughby couldn't figure out what I was talking about, so I just copy / pasted stuff from Hyper Buu for Willoughby to use in the MK Fatality stuff). Also, I specifically remember asking Willoughby to leave my name out of the docs because of the hatred at the time towards DBZ coders at TESTP and later Dev and so on... But anyway, Willoughby and The Necromancer and ChairmanKaga finally helped piece together Willoughby's masterpiece at the time "Scorpion" about the time TESTP closed down. And then, as we figured, stuff got used and... Next comes Willoughby Jackson and The Necromancer on a bloody "Crusade against thieves" on all forums (except TESP which was closed now), and it all just went downhill after that and I lost contact with Willoughby and Necro after this. Chairmankaga disappeared and that was that. But yeah, many of the techniques, outlines, and ideas used in the original MK Fatality MUGEN codes were from a DBZ character creator, GohanSSM2. At this time of togetherness (when we were working on the codes) is when I found out that The Necromancer spoke english as a second language. You find out more by being friendly than cranky. But if you think about a crusade against something. It isn't such a good idea if you may be crusading against yourself as well. And after Necro's Broli came Necro's Piccolo (with docs eluding to copying Ssonic's Piccolo as an 'update' and such). But yeah, "The crusades against thieves" was a bust in the end. And Willoughby and Necro both drifted off to the background for a while after this. Myself, Rone Rivendale, and ChairmanKaga many times lectured Willoughby and Necro on the NiteTek forum about the Crusades they were doing, but it fell on deaf ears. If you are going to take on an 'enemy', you can't "join them to beat them". So case in point, the Crusades failed because Necro and Willoughby had used other people's coding in their releases as well. Why didn't Willoughby and Necro just develop their own stuff and not have to use permission and all that? Willoughby and Necro weren't guilty of "stealing" stuff, but they did use other people's codes in their characters. But how can you stop a thief when you use other people's stuff too? Like said, "the Crusades against thieves in MUGEN was a bust". Real coders didn't give a crap, and the 'thieves' aren't going to listen anyway, so... But really, how do you know if something is someone's own coding, or taken from someone else? Easy. Ask. A coder knows what they did and can explain it, whilst a copier has to try and figure out what the original creator did which always seems to be missing some information... Later, when you ask someone, say for instance, masquer, why they used explodes in thier "demons coming up from the floor" code from Akuamakusa and they say "because too many helpers would cause a crash", you know. Whereas you ask someone else why they used explods instead of helpers in thier "demons coming out of the floor" move on thier Blackheart character and they can't answer then...

[GohanSSM2]

The true reason for TESTP closing down - plain and simple it was because they could not get enough bandwidth available for the thousands of posters that used the forum. As a result, most people, even TESTP themselves, could not access the forum without having to wait five to ten minutes to gain access. The Shinanigans were amusing, but not the reason (see above). What shinanigans? Well, Infiinma, Kirby, razorgolem, and a few others changing their 'titles' to mods and administrators and posting stuff in topics. They also posted stuff in 'admin/mod' only sections as well which raised some eyebrows as to how they were able to gain access there. Changing your location (which I had something like Planet Earth or such and Infiinma had Planet Hollywood at one time). And all kinds of mental headplay went on. But like said, the real reason why TESTP shut down was that it was just plain too huge for the server to handle and had to be shut down. Too many posters, too much net space, too little bandwidth were the reasons.

[GohanSSM2]

The "AI" Wars aka, DarkMasterS contest to develop a monster AI character that followed 5 simple rules that I can't remember what they were now... Anyway, the result was Psycho Shredder vs. Necro's Broli. Another result was someone, I believe Infiinma, posting two pics at TESTP. One pic with Broli getting beat by I believe GohanSSM2's Android 20 and I think another one with Psycho Shredder getting beat by GohanSSM2's Normal Cell. After this I got some posts from Jin Kazama asking how to do the lifeadd stuff. Anyway, yeah, I had a bad rep as making "super cheap" characters at the time. And DBZ in general was looked at as "cheap" all the way around (except EmuBoarding of course). But also, this was when DarkMasterS and I started emailing back and forth about coding techniques and ideas and such. But K3nSh1n was the one that came up with the time = 1 stuff for AI activation and that kind of stuff. People still know about DarkMasterS' Psycho Shredder, but few remember now that DarkMasterS also did a Cyber Shredder that didn't have the AI stuff in it. Also, DarkMasterS told me that DarkMasterS was a group of four people and that the one I was talking to was the one that spoke english. Also note, #mugen was the original chat channel on irc. Many of the "heavys" didn't really post much on the TESTP board but instead stayed most of the time on the chat channel away from the 'drama' and public eye of the TESTP forum.

[C.R.O.M.verydannyboy]

my fondest mugen memory was beating ss4 broli with cvs terry . the most epic brawl i had when i first started getting into mugen harbody lol!! i was just getting into seeing challenging mugen character's a.i. were compared to the real mc coy when i saw this schmuck on youtube and had to face him for the thrill of the fight!! a few chokeslams into pits and clotheslines later i saw that mugen could get really fagazey with the thug tactics. so i had to dig deep and get dirty with the k groove . i started another game and he came up in the rotation again. he took out my three other players (i play four on four turns battle) and mr. bogard was left. he blew up the world and came at me with everything, but the 92 fabillion times i just defended i hit him with so many supers i lost count lol!! i was happy that bum and the squad that joined him took a dirtnap lol! then i crashed at the next round hahahaha damn winmugen!! lol good times.....

[GohanSSM2]

OK, the legends (in no particular order) and why (to be a 'legend / god' you had to do something unique or different for the most part)...

Elecbyte - the greatest, bestest MUGEN coders ever...

TESTP - a small group of individuals (4 I believe) that helped set up MUGEN and much of the original ethics of sharing discoveries and ideas. The original 'open source' proponents that believed in helping one another and doing things for MUGEN's sake and not for individual glory or any of that.

Vissual Kreations - the Ashura Warp code (character disappears and then appears elsewhere on screen). Did many characters which were later updated by Terry Kuo. Orochi (using ,,A in the air file to give him that 'invisible ghost' feel), Gouki, and many, many others. VK left MUGEN creation after RRRRRR took most of VK's coding to do a Dan character. Way too many coding breakthroughs to list...

K3nsh1n - originated the 'time - 1' AI type coding. K3nsh1n also made a utility for making fonts in MUGEN as well.

DarkMasterS - a group of 4 people that took K3nsh1n's AI coding to a new level. Psycho Shredder, Satan-son, and several other characters were the basis for 'tough AI' for many years to come.

Sorrowedge and Shadow Watcher - coding gurus of the old TESTP forum. Worked to help many different coders figure out that 'last bit' needed to get coding to work properly.

Yohko - a sprite creator who helped many people figure out how to rip sprites back in the day.

Maruta and R Marker - Maruta was the spriter, and R Marker was an excellent coder.

The Necromancer - helped many, many people on coding projects at TESTP. released Broli and Piccolo but was also the one behind the Silent Storm character as well. Silent Storm bugged Necro to help Silent Storm, but in reality, Necro compiled a lot of this character for Storm. A much respected person in the old TESTP for his countless hours and many posts helping others to figure out coding. Also had the 'Fallen Angel' tutorial site which was a staple for many new MUGEN character makers back in the day.

EmuBoarding - although a million hits on a website was major back in 2000, EmuBoarding was THE most popular person at one time in MUGEN. His DBZ site was well visited by many people to say the least. EmuBoarding helped bring some balance but also introduced people to intros which also lead to "can you translate that to english/japanese/portuguese/etc?". Left after the site provider was going to charge EmuBoarding based on the huge amount of bandwidth (would have been a minimum of 64 US dollars a month (and probably more).

Pioupiou - did the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles game with the portrait select screen not in box form. Also did the Picco character which, when thrown, Picco would fly towards the screen and leave a 'crack' in the monitor that remained throughout the match. Many innovations. Pioupiou later moved onto making full games using a game maker (non MUGEN) as did...

KGenjuro - started making many Samurai Shodown characters (including the Samurai Showdown 2 accurate Hattori Hanzou) then released his J'Dar II game which turned MUGEN into a space shooter (Galaga, and those type gasmes) shooter. Very unique individual and very talented. Like Pioupiou, KGenjuro moved on to work with a different type game development engine as well. But daddelkingz.de was a popular site at one time. Also, way too many coding breakthroughs to list.

Willoughby Jackson - although most of the code was developed by others, Willoughby (with a lot of help from The Necromancer and Willoughby's brother ChairmanKaga) did release the 'coming up through the floor' and MK Fatality codes. Probably Willoughby's greatest contribution was the fact that he had trouble grasping coding concepts, but Willoughby's determination to see things through was probably his greatest asset. Unlike most of the rest of the 'legends', Willoughby wasn't really a 'rocket scientist' type.

Tin - Fernandeath. Tin was an original master with throw type coding back in the day (not as developed as Pioupiou however).

kuzu-bei - DBZ free floating flight codes. Tired, exhausted, aka dizzy states (state 5300) as well. Quite a few accomplishments for such a short time (around 3 to 4 months).

destino_pt (also Destino) - did a couple Dragonball characters back in the day but also helped set up the Mugen Dev forum way back when after TESTP was having problems with keeping the TESTP forum going. Helped set up the 'link' type site to link to individual characters and such. The link site at Mugen Dev later became too unmanageable as there were way too many listings for a manageable web page or pages.

masquer - many, many innovations and did Samurai Shodown characters most notably Akuamakusa. Very talented.

kusirojin - Cham Cham and helpers and such.

Mouser - Many interesting coding concepts.

? - Original creator of shield codes for Captain America Zero (cap-am0) in January 26, 2000 (so waaayyyy before MystikBlaze's time). I can not remember his name anymore, sorry

In the 'old' days, as you can imagine, there was a kind of 'pecking' order in MUGEN coding circles that went like this - Top of the chain - Samurai Shodown and Last Blade (KGenjuro, etc.) - Middle of Road - DBZ (Pioupiou, kuzu-bei, EmuBoarding, Tetsuro, GohanSSM2, etc.) - Bottom of the barrel (usually scarfed stuff from others) - Capcom and King of Fighters and Dark Stalkers and such (Jin Kazama, Big Eli King, etc.).

Also of note, a list of those I can remember that were known to have knowledge of actual coding languages (MASM, TASM, BASIC, COBOL, FORTRAN, C++, and such) and not just scripting language coding (MUGEN, DOOM, QUAKE, etc.). - Elecbyte (of course), KGenjuro, Mhz, K3nSh1n, Kogason, Ses, at least one member of TESTP, at least one member of DarkMasterS possibly two, Ragnarok Nemo, GohanSSM2.

oops, forgot about this guy http://gohanssm.netn...istory-new.html And also, back when, this guy, razorgolem, and The Necromancer used a Hex viewer (I know this guy used HXED but not sure what razorgolem and The Necromancer used) on the MUGEN exe file and discovered missing parameters for constants not documented. About 6 or 7 undocumented constants like "power =" were found. These, I believe, were documented however in the japanese docs.

SOS - Saori with the volleyball floating around her head and corin as well.

Qkrtkf! - Shuma Gorath - the original Marvel Super Heroes Gem Coding Guru (had a site which also included Qkrtkf!'s fellow creator CrazyForSF). Full name is Qkrtkf! = ºý»ì!

Note - many japanese creators belong in this list as well (but hard to add japanese in an english format forum). One of the MUGEN coders from Elecbyte spoke japanese as his primary language and translated everything over to japanese giving japanese speaking people a kind of advantage over english speaking people back in the day. The japanese docs were very thorough while the english docs were fairly incomplete up through MUGEN 06.27.2000.

Sander71113 - worked on AI and normal type modes for characters

AtomicDog2020 - not really a character maker but a guru as far as stage making ability

NeoGouki - no idea why really NeoGouki was so popular back in the day. Akuma was kind of a bland SF Capcom character. But I think it was because NeoGouki found something different to work with and many in the english community hadn't thought about other language version Street Fighter characters (although VK did Gouki beforehand).

The age of 'legends' started ending around late 2001 when 'gangs' started moving into the english speaking community and trying to enforce their will (standards) on everyone else. As VK (Vissual Kreations) so eloquently put it, "I won't join your 'gang' no matter how much you badger me or bribe me to do so. Although my joining would probably triple your coding archive" or something to that effect. This started the 'Dark Ages' of MUGEN development, The 'legends' mostly left and coding development stagnated.

and other 'legends' as I think of them...

 

OK, trying to remember what Limited Moon was about...

[Yuyustars]

wow I love how you tell and share good memories of mugen GohanSSM2 So here my short version of memories of Mugen Free for All I started mugen when I saw on you tube one of the eternal fighter zero character vs capcom characters. at first was I like where the hell they getting these fighting game from or how did they made them and so a friend of my told me about mugen and the mugen community. The first thing I did was stay at Mugen guild for a bit and then I encounter Big boss with his screen-pack and ask me to join and try out his new age Mugen website. well turn out that I never was there every much so I return to mugen guild once again that when I saw Mugen Free for all 3 screen pack by Ryon that when I started to enjoy more of the mugen. but at same time mugen 1.0 came to the scene that when I enjoying Toshio first new character Princess Comet even more and Toshio also ask me to join his website. So how did I end up here and how did I knew about Mugen free for all website. How did a girl at my age came to this world and be a part of this community. Well I was looking for a E.honda street fighter 2 character and I made a request before on mugen guild and new age mugen. I spend like hours and even days looking for the character I even posted fatal fury character on mugen guild request section and new age mugen. but its like was bad idea at the time. and that when I met Ryon for the first time lol omg I keep typing his name wrong XD and I keep posting topic in the wrong area. and that when I saw for the first time the chat room. I had to ask for someone to help me because I was keep on messing up the topic on the forum even tho Ryon fix my topic and skulled me from not spam the smiley XD so he told me to stop it hehehe... and I had to find someone that could help me with MFFA forum and learn how to post my topic the right way Lmao. that when I met Alpyne D. then I met bruce, Ky, tohno, Zin and Ryon, Laharl and many ppl here in the mugen community. Today I still enjoy MFFA and everyone company to this day

[GohanSSM2]

That's really nice Yuyustars. Yeah, I like it here too because they try the best to be helpful whenever possible. Anyway, did you ever get E Honda by Fido? for the SF2 Alpha would be the E Honda by H... Nice to hear from you Yuyustars. same verydannyboy. We're all different. We've all had our problems, downfalls, and triumphs... Speaking of which, how about this quote, "Unless we learn the lessons from our mistakes made in days past, we are bound to repeat them."

[helltoast]

I remember I got into Mugen back in 2006, wanted to create a fighting game starring (Millions) Knives, Sephiroth, Ganondorf and Kratos together with a friend, too bad none of us could code for shit. During one of my many visits to the now defunct Hyrule Legends forums I came across a video showing a poorly sprited Link fighting an equally shitty Sephiroth (Gulthor's), I demanded to know what wizardry was that.

I was completely addicted to it few weeks later. My first screenpack was Mugen Tournament 3 by Dr4ch1R, I used tracks from the Trigun soundtrack for whatever reason, haha. I was a couple years late, many characters were offline by then, tried a compilation .torrent but most files were outdated (DOSMugen, wat?). I did have tons of fun with some rarities such as Cyber Akuma though, felt like a boss having Holy Ken in my attire. Thanks to him I was determined to make the 'rarest' roster known to man, started working on my Youtube 'connections' but most people were assholes, my Google-fu was terrible as well. In short all I had was determination. Then I stumbled on eSnips. Warehousing, you say? Nightmare Broly SSJ3, God Orochi, Riot Ryu, God Ken, AOAO's Sol, JoJo's Order Sol, even my holy grail, Lord Ryu, YOU SAY!? It was like cocaine, but better.

In fact, I started 'creating' (as in, editing) characters because of Gulthor's Nightmare Broly; through days of trial and error I managed to make the damn thing stick to its SSJ5 transformation. I supposed that's why I turned into such a sucker for OHKO characters. Ahhh, my first 'real' creation, Muteki's Justice edit, Goddess Justice. She was supposed to be a stagger-less, very combo-able 'Dark' Justice with a 666 'aura' floating in the back, but down the road I realized she'd be at the mercy of Boss God Orochi and other cheaper characters (and that I sucked at Fireworks). 'NO!', I said to myself, 'she HAS to be the strongest, screw gameplay, let's delete the hitboxes and spam [lifeadd]!'

I actually did put a lot of effort into that mess, learned a lot from it. I might revisit the original project someday. In 2008 I came up with an invincibility code that took four years to be cracked by null debuggers, it still works though. Nowadays I'm the guy behind one of the cheapest characters ever, Giυgas, my little precious. I know it's petty, but I'm actually proud of this monstrosity.

However, out of everything the Mugen community has ever produced, I believe we'll NEVER forget all the drama caused by 'unauthorized' edits and the Guild going 'anarchist'. Just thinking about Laxxe makes me giggle.