Jump to content
In light of a recent surge of spam posts from guest accounts, the ability to log trouble tickets under a guest account has been disabled. If you are having trouble accessing your forum account, please contact a staff member via our Discord server. ×

[Gen6] Pokemon of the Week ORAS Edition (08/26: The return of PotW)


RicePigeon
 Share

Recommended Posts

Well with ORAS released, allow me to formally reintroduce you to the POTW thread. Like the X&Y version of this thread, the posts will go over a specific Pokemon each week, tell you how to use it, and even give example movesets. Things will be run a bit differently here, however;

  • For starters, unlike the X&Y PotW thread, which had 1 Ubers Pokemon, one OU Pokemon, and one lower tier Pokemon each week (for a total of 3 Pokemon), there will now be strictly one Pokemon each week, with each tier alternating (in order from Ubers to OU to UU/RU/NU/PU)
  • Since the ORAS Metagame is still relatively young, specific checks and counters and teammates will be kept to a minimum until further notice.

List of Ubers & AG POTW

  • 384.png384-m.pngRayquaza & Mega Rayquaza (11/24/14)
  • 487.png487o.png

List of OU & BL POTW

  • 497.png

List of Lower Tier POTW

With that in mind, let us begin with a Pokemon who received a new Mega Evolution and perhaps the most threatening one with power not seen since RBY Mewtwo;
 
EDIT: Outdated. Please view the new PotW for Rayquaza
 
Rayquaza & Mega Rayquaza
rayquaza.gifrayquaza-mega.gif
Tier Status (Normal): Ubers
Tier Status (Mega): AG
 
Base Stats (Normal): 105 / 150 / 90 / 150 / 90 / 95
Base Stats (Mega): 105 / 180 / 100 / 180 / 100 / 115
 
Abilities (Normal):

  • Air Lock: For as long as this Pokemon is on the field, negates the effect of all weathers.

Abilities (Mega):

  • Delta Stream: For as long as this Pokemon is on the field, the Strong Winds weather is in effect. Cannot be overwritten by other weathers and reduces the damage of the opponent's Rock, Electric, and Ice attacks by 50%. This weather disappears once the Pokemon is switched out.

Contents

  • Ubers & AG Overview
    • Ubers & AG Checks & Counters

Overview
Rayquaza has always been an Ubers Pokemon ever since it was first introduced back in Gen 3. With the release of Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, Rayquaza became the second legendary Pokemon since Mewtwo to receive a Mega Evolution. What makes Mega Rayquaza much more threatening than other Mega Evolutions, however, is that the opportunity cost of having to hold a Mega stone does not exist for Rayquaza. Instead, Rayquaza merely needs to know Dragon Ascent in order to Mega Evolve, and can hold any item that it wants. This limited moveslot requirement is more of a positive than a negative, as Dragon Ascent gives Rayquaza a powerful base 120 power physical Flying type STAB attack, and there is virtually no reason not to run it as Flying is easily one of the most spammable attack types this generation. Combine this with Mega Rayquaza's massive 180 base attack and Special Attack, base 115 speed, and ability to hold any item and you have a monster with power not seen since Mewtwo in RBY.
 
If this wasn't enough, Mega Rayquaza also gains access to the new Delta Stream ability, which not only blocks all incoming weather just like Air Lock, but also reduces the damage of any incoming attack that is super effective versus Flying by 50%. In other words, Mega Rayquaza loses its Rock-type weakness, gains an Electric-type resistance, and its crippling 4x Ice weakness is now only 2x. With all of these factors taken into account, Mega Rayquaza has no counters and very few checks.
 
(UPDATE 11/29): Mega Rayquaza has been banned from Ubers effective Nov 29th. Normal Rayquaza may still be substituted for any instance of its Mega, but for all intents and purposes, this PotW now contains outdated information.
 
AG Singles Moveset: Mega Sweeper
384-m.png
Ability: Air Lock (Delta Stream) / Item: @Life Orb, Lum Berry, or Weakness Policy
Nature: Adamant or Jolly w/ EVs: 252 Attack / 4 Defense / 252 Speed
Moves: Dragon Ascent / Earthquake / ExtremeSpeed / Dragon Dance or Swords Dance
 
Tips:

  • Dragon Ascent, despite its name, grants Mega Rayquaza a powerful Flying-type equivalent of Close Combat.
  • Earthquake nails many of the Steel type Pokemon that resist Dragon Ascent, such as Aegislash.
  • Extremespeed allows Mega Rayquaza to outspeed Priority users and faster Pokemon that could otherwise check Mega Rayquaza.
  • The last move is dedicated to a boosting move of choice. Dragon Dance boosts both speed and attack and allows Mega Rayquaza a way to outspeed faster Pokemon without having to rely on Extremespeed, while Swords Dance provides it with more immediate attacking power.
  • While it may make sense to give Mega Rayquaza Dragon Claw or Outrage as a Dragon-type STAB, Dragon provides redundant coverage with Flying.
  • The given EV spread maximizes Mega Rayquaza's attack and speed.
  • For the item, Life Orb provides even more brutal attacking power, while Lum Berry allows Mega Rayquaza to laugh at attempts to burn or paralyze it to stop its sweep. Weakness policy, however, takes advantage of the fact that Mega Rayquaza has very few type weaknesses and is bulky enough to sponge most of them, and makes it even more threatening afterwards.

AG Singles Moveset: Mega All Out Attacker
384-m.png
Ability: Air Lock (Delta Stream) / Item: @Life Orb, Choice Scarf, or Choice Band
Nature: Adamant or Naughty w/ EVs: 252 Attack / 4 Defense / 252 Speed
Moves: Dragon Ascent / Earthquake / Draco Meteor or ExtremeSpeed / V-create or Overheat
 
Tips:

  • Dragon Ascent, despite its name, grants Mega Rayquaza a powerful Flying-type equivalent of Close Combat.
  • Earthquake nails many of the Steel type Pokemon that resist Dragon Ascent, such as Aegislash.
  • For the third slot, Draco Meteor provides a powerful special Dragon STAB that hits any physically defensive Pokemon that try to tank Mega Rayquaza's physical attacks. Extremespeed, however, allows Mega Rayquaza to outspeed Priority users and faster Pokemon that could otherwise check Mega Rayquaza.
  • The last move is dedicated to Fire type coverage. V-Create is a powerful 180 base physical Fire move that hits extremely hard with Choice Band or Life Orb, but usually forces Mega Rayquaza to switch out afterward. Overheat, however, is a weaker special equivalent that hits physically defensive Pokemon harder.
  • The given EV spread maximizes Mega Rayquaza's attack and speed.
  • For nature, Naughty should only be used if running Draco Meteor or Overheat, as it does not drop Rayquaza's Special Attack unlike Adamant.
  • For the item, Life Orb provides brutal mixed attacking power. Choice Scarf can be used to play the role of a revenge killer, especially if running Draco Meteor over Extremespeed. Choice Band, however, provides maximum wallbreaking power, but should only be used if running Extremespeed and V-Create in the last two slots.

Recommended Teammates:

  • Primal Groudon (Immune to Burn and Thunder Wave, can set up Stealth Rock)
  • Jirachi (Provides Healing Wish support, can provide safe switch-ins with U-turn)

AG Checks and Counters to Mega Rayquaza

  • Stealth Rock
  • Mega Aerodactyl (Immune to Earthquake, resists Dragon Ascent and Extremespeed)
  • Klefki (Paralyzes with priority Thunderwave, resists Extremespeed and Dragon Ascent, is KOed by Earthquake, Overheat, and V-Create)
  • Dialga (Resists Dragon Ascent and Extremespeed, Air Balloon variants avoid KO from Earthquake, takes neutral damage from Dragon and Fire attacks)
  • Ditto (Can revenge kill boosted Mega Rayquaza)
  • Arceus-Fairy (Outspeeds and OHKOs with Judgement, is 2HKOed by +2 Extremespeed, has 50% chance of being OHKOed by +1 Dragon Ascent)
  • Lugia (Tanks hits, wins 1v1 with Reflect, can Whirlwind Mega Rayquaza out, also checks Primal Groudon)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see mega-Rayquaza has good chances against pokemon that gives him the most trouble but it might also need moves like 'Gyro-Ball' to keep check with Fairy-types since they will posed the most threat like Azumarill (water/fairy) with "pure power" ability and Diancie (Rock/fairy) with the move 'Magnet Rise' (I heard they have tutors in OR/AS that can teach her that move)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also because I forgot to post this before:

 

  • +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Gyro Ball (16 BP) vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 78-92 (22.6 - 26.6%) -- 26.5% chance to 4HKO

 

Thats with a Swords Dance boost, 0 Speed EVs, 0 Speed IVs, and a Brave nature.

 

Also Dragon Ascent takes care of the Fairy types that give MegaRayray issues, even Arceus-Fairy risks being OHKOed by it, as I mentioned in the Checks & Counters list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also because I forgot to post this before:

 

  • +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Gyro Ball (16 BP) vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 78-92 (22.6 - 26.6%) -- 26.5% chance to 4HKO

 

Thats with a Swords Dance boost, 0 Speed EVs, 0 Speed IVs, and a Brave nature.

 

Also Dragon Ascent takes care of the Fairy types that give MegaRayray issues, even Arceus-Fairy risks being OHKOed by it, as I mentioned in the Checks & Counters list.

True... but does that leave Mega Rayquaza kind of open for a strong attack like 'Playrough' because Dragon Ascent as you metioned lowers its defences especially going against Bulky Fairy-typs like Azumarill. :-P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

  • 252+ Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 430-508 (108 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

How is Azumarill countering Mega Rayquaza with Play Rough again?

 

Oh!.. if you put it that way. With life Orb Mega-Rayquaza attack powers goes beyond breaking through defencive pokemon like that. Ouch! O_o

unless Azumarill learns 'reflect' but it seems that bypasses that situation as well in a way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Even if it did (which Azumarill shouldnt be using anyway lol):

 

  • +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Azumarill through Reflect: 322-380 (80.9 - 95.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

Man that is crazy. LOL! XD

 

Looks like Lugia (with multi-scale) might be the only pokemon that might have a good chance against Mega Rayquaza. Maybe with the moves like Recovery, Blizzard, psychic, and Aero-Blast.  :-P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I already mentioned Lugia in the analysis, and it needs Reflect and Whirlwind/Dragon Tail in order to reliably beat Mega Rayquaza 1-on-1. Also lol Blizzard (lol attacking Lugia in general). Noobie, I strongly suggest using some kind of damage calculator next time you say Pokemon X can beat Pokemon Y with Z move, it'll really strengthen your argument

 

But just for the record, Lugia's Blizzard does pathetic damage to MegaRayquaza while MegaQuaza 2HKOs back without Reflect up:

 

  • 0 SpA Lugia Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Rayquaza in Strong Winds: 136-160 (38.7 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  • +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Multiscale Lugia: 214-252 (51.5 - 60.7%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Speaking of Lugia, many defensive Ubers teams have been running Lugia + Mega Sableye + Primal Groudon as their defensive core just for Mega Ray. P-Groudon loses to MegaRay, but it is the most reliable Stealth Rock setter in Ubers at the moment, and Mega Ray hates losing 25% health every time it switches in, especially if Lugia is phazing it out, and Mega Sableye just laughs at any attempt to set up Stealth Rock which would otherwise make MegaRay's job even easier.

 

EDIT: Turns out Extremekiller Arceus can revenge kill weakened MegaRayquaza as long as its HP is below 54%, (216 Speed EVs is enough to outspeed MegaRayquaza and MegaRay's +2 Extremespeed only 2HKOs Arceus anyway). +2 Dragon Ascent eats it alive, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Noobie, I strongly suggest using some kind of damage calculator next time you say Pokemon X can beat Pokemon Y with Z move, it'll really strengthen your argument

Yes I know i'm still learning how to use that type of calculation. :-P

 

You always provide the most accrurate knowledge about how competitive each pokemon are against each other which I like how you put it down in your own way. :goodmood:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd just like to point out that with Mega Rayquaza now being banned from Ubers, that that PotW is outdated. However, normal Rayquaza can still be substituted for any instance of Mega Ray. Rayquaza will eventually be revisited in a future PotW once Ubers has settled down in the aftermath of Rayquaza's Mega Evolution being the very first Pokemon to be banned from ubers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Greninja
greninja.gif

Type: Water/Dark

Tier Status (Singles): Ubers
Tier Status (Doubles): DOU

Base Stats: 72 / 95 / 67 / 103 / 71 / 122

Abilities (Normal):

  • Torrent: If this Pokemon's HP is 33% of its maximum HP or lower, the base power of this Pokemon's Water-type attacks are increased by 50%.
  • Protean (Hidden Ability): This Pokemon will change its type to the same type of attack it is using on that turn.

 

 

Table of Contents

  • Singles OU Overview
  • Singles Ubers Overview
  • Doubles OU Overview

 

 

Singles OU Overview

(01/12/15 Edit: Greninja has been banned from OU as of 01/11/15. This section will be kept here in its entirely for archival purposes in the event that Greninja is ever allowed back into OU, but for all intents and purposes, this portion of the PotW is no longer valid.)

ORAS Singles OU Viability: S Banned
Viability changes from X&Y Singles OU: S -> S Banned

When Greninja was first introduced in X&Y, it was immediately placed in the A+ viability rank, and eventually rose up to S-rank. It is not hard to see why. With Protean, Greninja essentially gains STAB on every single attack that it has access to, including non-damaging attacks such as Spikes. While Protean could also be used defensively to change Greninja's type into a type that removes one of its weaknesses, such as using Hidden Power Fire to make itself resist Fairy, Greninja is generally too frail to do so, and is often relegated to a pure offensive role. Greninja's ability to harass offensive teams with its unique speed tier and offensive presence was extremely noteworthy, and Greninja could utilize either an all-out attacking set or take advantage of the switches that it forces by running Spikes + 3 attacks, further harassing the opponent and placing more offensive pressure on them.

When ORAS was released, Greninja went from an already good Pokemon to a Pokemon that is now being called for a suspect test and a possible banishment to ubers, all because Greninja gained access to two moves that pushed its viability over the edge; Gunk Shot and Low Kick. With these two moves alone, many of Greninja's old checks and counters from X&Y, such as Clefable, Sylveon, Mega Gardevoir, Azumarill, Chansey, and Black Kyurem, are now 2HKOed at minimum. In fact, even with a -Attack nature and 0 Attack investment, Life Orb Protean Gunk Shot scores an easy OHKO on standard Assault Vest Azumarill, turning it from Azumarill's best set in X&Y into one of Azumarill's most redundant in ORAS. Greninja's offensive coverage with its mixed set is so effective that Greninja often no longer runs Hydro Pump as a result.

ORAS OU Singles Moveset: Mixed Attacker
658.png
Ability: Protean / Item: @Life Orb
Nature: Naive w/ EVs: 44 Attack / 212 Sp.Attack / 252 Speed
Moves: Gunk Shot / Ice Beam / Dark Pulse / Low Kick or Hydro Pump

Tips:

  • Gunk Shot is Greninja's most threatening move that it could ask for, as it now allows Greninja to easily 2HKO the Fairy types that used to harass it.
  • Ice Beam provides great offensive coverage, nailing many Flying, Dragon, and Ground types in OU, as well as 2HKOing Mega Venusaur after Stealth Rock.
  • Dark Pulse is Greninja's best option for bulky psychics such as Mega Slowbro, and easily scores an OHKO on Gengar.
  • For the last slot, Low Kick is Greninja's best option for Chansey, Assault Vest Black Kyurem, and Empoleon, who can otherwise wall it. It also nails Ferrothorn for big damage, as Greninja isn't running Hidden Power Fire. However, Hydro Pump can still be used as it is the most powerful special attack that Greninja has access to.
  • The above EV spread is designed to maximize Greninja's speed. 44 Attack EVs guarantees the OHKO on all variants of Azumarill, while the rest is dumped into its Sp.Attack. Naive is chosen as the nature over Timid so that it does not detract from either of Greninja's offensive stats, while only detracting from its already pathetic bulk.
  • An alternative EV spread of 212 Attack, 44 Sp.Attack, and 252 Speed can be used to hit harder on the physical side, allowing Greninja to 2HKO Chansey after Stealth Rock.
  • Despite Greninja's great coverage, it will have issues in that it cannot OHKO bulkier opponents.
  • Never switch Greninja in directly except on a predicted switch or as a revenge kill, as Greninja is too frail to take hits, even resisted ones.

Recommended Teammates:

  • 243.png310-m.png479w.png645-s.png212-m.png
    Raikou, Mega Manectric, Rotom-Wash, Landorus-Therian, and Mega Scizor can all provide Greninja with switch-in opportunities with Volt Switch and U-turn, respectively. The latter three also tend to be slow and will use their appropriate switching move last, allowing Greninja to come in safely.
  • Offensive Stealth Rock setters (036.png645-s.png445.png598.png473.png639.png248.png)
    Due to the switches that Greninja forces do to its offensive presence, Pokemon that can set up Stealth Rock can punish these switches, racking up entry hazard damage.

ORAS OU Singles Moveset: Spikes
658.png
Ability: Protean / Item: @Life Orb
Nature: Naive w/ EVs: 44 Attack / 212 Sp.Attack / 252 Speed
Moves: Spikes / Gunk Shot / Ice Beam / Dark Pulse, Low Kick or Hydro Pump

Tips:

  • Spikes is the main selling point of this moveset, as Greninja forces plenty of switches, so it will always find an opportunity to set up Spikes as the opponent switches.
  • Gunk Shot is Greninja's most threatening move that it could ask for, as it now allows Greninja to easily 2HKO the Fairy types that used to harass it.
  • Ice Beam provides great offensive coverage, nailing many Flying, Dragon, and Ground types in OU, as well as 2HKOing Mega Venusaur.
  • For the last slot, Dark Pulse is Greninja's best option for bulky psychics such as Mega Slowbro, and easily scores an OHKO on Gengar. Low Kick is Greninja's best option for Chansey, Assault Vest Black Kyurem, and Empoleon, who can otherwise wall it. It also nails Ferrothorn for big damage, as Greninja isn't running Hidden Power Fire. However, Hydro Pump can still be used as it is the most powerful special attack that Greninja has access to.
  • The above EV spread is designed to maximize Greninja's speed. 44 Attack EVs guarantees the OHKO on all variants of Azumarill, while the rest is dumped into its Sp.Attack. Naive is chosen as the nature over Timid so that it does not detract from either of Greninja's offensive stats, while only detracting from its already pathetic bulk.
  • While this set employs Spikes, setting up three layers of Spikes should not be your first priority. It should be played the same way as the Mixed Attacker set, and Spikes should not be used if there is an opportunity to KO an opponent. Instead, Spikes should be used early in the game and only on predicted switches. Alternatively, Spikes can be used against slower Volt Switch users such as Rotom-Wash, as Spikes will turn Greninja into a Ground-type Pokemon due to Protean, thus blocking the Volt Switch and momentarily halting your opponent's momentum.
  • If running Spikes Greninja along with a Stealth Rock user, Spikes shouldn't take priority over Stealth Rock. Instead, Spikes should be set up once Stealth Rock is on your opponent's side of the field, as a single layer of Spikes effectively doubles Stealth Rock's damage against opponent's neutral to it, causing them to lose 25% of their health every time they switch in. Multiple layers of Spikes are not necessary, and Greninja will rarely find an opportunity to set up more than one layer.
  • While it may be tempting to run Toxic Spikes over Spikes in order to better deal with Stall teams, Spikes is generally better as Toxic Spikes is much easier to remove and play around, as Steel types are immune to Poison and Poison types like Mega Venusaur can remove Toxic Spikes simply by switching in.

Recommended Teammates:

  • 243.png310-m.png479w.png645-s.png212-m.png
    Raikou, Mega Manectric, Rotom-Wash, Landorus-Therian, and Mega Scizor can all provide Greninja with switch-in opportunities with Volt Switch and U-turn, respectively. The latter three also tend to be slow and will use their appropriate switching move last, allowing Greninja to come in safely.
  • Offensive Stealth Rock setters (036.png645-s.png445.png598.png473.png639.png248.png)
    Due to the switches that Greninja forces due to its offensive presence, Pokemon that can set up Stealth Rock can punish these switches, racking up entry hazard damage, and works well in conjunction with a single layer of Spikes.
  • 625.png094.png
    Due to having multiple layers of entry hazards, opponents will be pressured to switch in their Defog or Rapid Spin user to remove them. Bisharp can dissuade the opponent from using Defog by virtue of Defiant, which gives Bisharp a free +2 attack boost due to Defog lowering its evasion, guaranteeing that your opponent will not be able to simply remove your entry hazards for free, and potentially keeping them around longer. While Bisharp covers users of Defog, Gengar covers users of Rapid Spin, blocking its use by virtue of its Ghost typing and preventing Spikes from being removed. Do note however that Excadrill and Starmie, the two most common users of Rapid Spin in OU, have ways of getting around Gengar (Mold Breaker Earthquake and Psyshock/Psychic, respectively)

ORAS Singles OU Checks and Counters to Greninja

Because of the sheer offensive power of Greninja, it has very few hard counters. It can be checked, as with many of the new fast Pokemon introduced in ORAS, Greninja can be revenge killed, especially due to its frailty.

  • 113.png233.png
    Even with Low Kick, Eviolite Chansey is still only 3HKOed by Greninja's physical attacks. A more physically oriented spread for Greninja can 2HKO Chansey with Low Kick, but requires Stealth Rock in order to do so. Chansey, meanwhile, can simply whittle Greninja's HP away with Seismic Toss while periodically using Softboiled. Eviolite Porygon2 is in a similar boat, but even a specially defensive Porygon2 only has a 30% chance of being 2HKOed by Low Kick + Stealth Rock at best, while Porygon2 can whisk away at Greninja with the appropriate coverage move.
  • 645-s.png647.png381.png + Choice Scarf
    Scarf Latios, Scarf Keldeo, and Scarf Landorus-Therian can all come in and outspeed Greninja, though none of them will be able to safely switch in. Nonetheless, they can all revenge kill Greninja or at least force it out 1v1.
  • 310-m.pngns1PnDU.png663.png142-m.png
    Mega Manectric, Mega Sceptile, Mega Aerodactyl and Talonflame can all outspeed and OHKO Greninja, and in the latter's case, can use priority Brave Bird. Like the Choice Scarf users, none of these Pokemon will be able to safely switch in.
  • 243.png
    While Raikou is often compared to Mega Manectric, it cannot outspeed Greninja. Nonetheless, Assault Vest Raikou can still revenge kill Greninja, as it is only 2HKOed by Greninja's attacks while it can OHKO with Thunderbolt after a bit of prior damage and Life Orb recoil.
  • 479w.png395.png130.png594.png073.png
    Certain bulky Water types are able to check or counter Greninja. Physically defensive Rotom-Wash is 3HKOed by Gunk Shot from 44 Attack variants, while it can 2HKO with either of its STAB moves or pivot back out with Volt Switch, but is vulnerable to being worn down. Physically defensive Empoleon can safely tank any of Greninja's moves except Low Kick, which 2HKOs Empoleon. In return, Empoleon can 2HKO with Scald after the type change from Protean and potentially burn Greninja, crippling it on the physical side. Choice Specs Empoleon can OHKO Greninja with Hydro Pump after the type change, and is still only 2HKOed by Low Kick, but will otherwise be unable to safely switch in except on a predicted Gunk Shot. Defensive Normal Gyarados with Rest + Sleep Talk can easily sponge any of Greninja's special attacks while having a low chance of being 3HKOed by Gunk Shot after Leftovers recovery, and resisting Low Kick, while Bulky Dragon Dance Normal Gyarados has less than 10% chance of being 2HKOed by Ice Beam and can easily OHKO with Bounce after a Dragon Dance. Alomomola can't do much beside burn Greninja and risks being 2HKOed by Dark Pulse, but can avoid the 2HKO with Protect and accumulate HP recovery with Wish and Leftovers in the process. Tentacruel doesn't care about Low Kick or Sludge Bomb and is at worst 3HKOed by Dark Pulse.
  • 461.png
    Weavile can naturally outspeed Greninja and can OHKO weakened Greninja with Low Kick before the type change or with Knock Off after the type change. Without prior damage, Low Kick by itself will not guarantee an OHKO with Stealth Rock, but the Life Orb recoil will force Greninja to KO itself in the process, though this requires sacrificing Weavile.

 

 

Singles Ubers Overview
ORAS Singles Ubers Viability: B-
Viability changes from X&Y Singles Ubers: F -> B-

As an offensive Pokemon, Greninja is mostly outclassed by Deoxys-Attack forme, who sports much higher offenses, a higher speed tier, and access to Extremespeed so that it cannot be revenge killed as easily as Greninja. However, Greninja can still be effective as a lead Pokemon in Ubers. While Greninja faces competition from Scolipede and Deoxys-Speed in this role, Greninja is capable of setting up Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Greninja's base speed is also enough for it to outspeed Defog Arceus and Taunt it. Greninja isn't dead weight against Rapid Spin user either, as it can utilize Shadow Sneak, transforming Greninja into a Ghost type because of Protean, and allowing it to block the incoming Rapid Spin. These traits allow Greninja to distinguish itself from other leads.


ORAS Ubers Singles Moveset: Dedicated Lead
658.png
Ability: Protean / Item: @Focus Sash
Nature: Jolly w/ EVs: 252 Attack / 4 Defense / 252 Speed
Moves: Spikes or Night Slash / Toxic Spikes or Night Slash / Taunt / Shadow Sneak

Tips:

  • Spikes and Toxic Spikes are Greninja's main selling point in Ubers, as it is one of the few Ubers-viable Pokemon capable of using both at once.
  • Another option Greninja has is to run Night Slash over one of its two hazard moves, as this will not only allow Greninja to 2HKO Deoxys-Speed with the combination of Night Slash + Shadow Sneak, but will also allow Greninja to deal with Stall-based Mewtwo, shutting it down with Taunt and rendering itself immune to Psystrike with Protean Night Slash. Note that Offensive Mewtwo will still be able to crush Greninja.
  • Taunt is used specifically for Defog Arceus, as Greninja easily outspeeds it and prevents it from removing its hazards.
  • Shadow Sneak has two purposes; it allows Greninja to change its type to Ghost against the opponent's Rapid Spinners, preventing them from removing its hazards. The second use for Shadow Sneak is to act as an anti-lead against Deoxys-Attack, OHKOing it.
  • The given EV spread and nature make Greninja as fast as possible, while also making Shadow Sneak hit as hard as possible.
  • Because of Greninja's frailty and its role as a lead Pokemon, Focus Sash is used to give it an extra turn to set up as many hazards as possible.
  • As the name suggests, Greninja should be the first Pokemon to start the fight with, as this is the best opportunity for it to set up as many hazards as possible early in the match.
  • If facing against an opponent's lead Tyranitar, it is suggested to use Spikes right off the bat, as Protean will cause Greninja to change its type to Ground, thus avoiding damage from Sand Stream after its Sash has been broken.
  • While having full layers of both types of Spikes and Toxic Spikes is certainly beneficial, these situations will rarely happen, so it is important to determine which type of Spikes is the most beneficial against your opponent's team and set those up first. Against teams that carry multiple Pokemon immune to Toxic Spikes, including Steel types, Poison types, Flying types, and users of Levitate, Spikes is obviously the more important hazard as it will have more of an impact. Even in cases where Toxic Spikes is more beneficial, you still need to determine if it is worth setting up both layers or just one. Keep in mind that normal Poison from 1 layer of Toxic Spikes deals 1/8 damage every turn, while Toxic Poison from 2 layers will only start off as 1/16 and increase by 1/16 each turn, resetting back to 1/16 if the Pokemon switches out. Because of this, Normal Poison will deal more damage over the course of two turns, breaks even with Toxic Poison at 3 turns, and will begin to be outdamaged by Toxic Poison beginning on the 4th turn. Against Pokemon that tend to stay in for more than two turns, such as Xerneas, setup sweepers, bulky Pokemon, and Walls, a full set Toxic Spikes is more beneficial, while against Offensive teams with many hit-and-run attackers who don't stay in for that many turns, only 1 layer of Toxic Spikes will be better in the long run.

Recommended Teammates:

  • Stealth Rock setters: 483.png383-p.png645-s.png
    Stealth Rock compliments Greninja's Spikes and Toxic Spikes perfectly, as not only does it affect the Pokemon immune to them, but also adds further damage to everything affected by them, further whittling them down. Dialga in particular is useful as it can threaten Origin Giratina with Draco Meteor, as Origin Giratina is one of the few Defog users who can give Greninja problems. Primal Groudon also works as it is currently one of the most threatening Pokemon in Ubers, and can easily force switches with its offensive Presence.
  • 383-p.png493.png716.png
    Even without running Stealth Rock, Primal Groudon is still a great teammate as its devastating Rock Polish Sweeper set appreciates the entry hazards Greninja can set up for it, whittling down Pokemon into KO range and giving it an even easier time sweeping. Normal Arceus is in a similar boat with its famous "Extremekiller" set, as once it sets up a Swords Dance, the extra damage from Greninja's hazards make its job even easier. Geomancy Xerneas, another dangerous setup sweeper, also appreciates hazards for the same reason.
  • 382.png
    Though its use has declined in ORAS due to the addition of Primal Groudon, Choice Specs Kyogre and Choice Scarf Kyogre appreciate having their checks and counters, such as Arceus-Grass and Primal Groudon, crippled by Poison and residual damage from Spikes, as this makes its job as a wallbreaker and revenge killer easier. For instance, Choice Specs Kyogre can KO Arceus-Grass with Water Spout or Ice Beam after residual damage from poison and accumulated spikes damage, as well as put additional pressure onto it as Arceus-Grass tends to be used for Defog, forcing it to choose between switching out and leaving hazards on its side of the field, or removing them and risk being KOed in the process.
  • 150.png150-mx.png150-my.png491.png717.png
    Fast users of Taunt such as Mewtwo, Mega Mewtwo X, Mega Mewtwo Y, and Darkrai can prevent the opponent from Defogging when Greninja isn't out or when Greninja has already been KOed. Unlike these four, Yveltal won't be able to stop Arceus formes from Defogging with Taunt since it is outsped by it, but it can Taunt Origin Giratina since it outspeeds it and forces it out due to its hard hitting Super Effective Dark attacks. Yveltal also has the benefit of running U-turn, not only allowing you to preserve momentum, but also allowing you to safely switch back into Greninja if needed. Darkrai can also beat Origin Giratina, but is more effective if Greninja runs Night Slash over Toxic Spikes so that it can use Dark Void without there being a conflict of status.
  • 487o.png094.png094-m.png
    A ghost type as a Spinblocker helps deal with Excadrill, whose ability to remove entry hazards is not impeded by Taunt. Though Origin Giratina is commonly used as a Defogger, it is also an effective Spinblocker since it also walls Excadrill's other attacks, and can force switches with Dragon Tail, further racking up entry hazard damage and wearing down the opponent's team. Mega Gengar can also check Extremekiller Arceus-Normal and Deoxys-Speed, and is helpful if Greninja is running both Spikes and Toxic Spikes since it will not be able to handle Deoxys-Speed without Night Slash. Mega Gengar is also great for trapping in general, removing a Pokemon from the game that would otherwise be able to stop Greninja or otherwise remove its entry hazards.
  • Choice Scarf users: 649.png382.png644.png716.png
    Darkrai is one of the few common lead Pokemon that can not only outspeed Greninja, but can also stop it entirely with Dark Void while simultaneously breaking its Focus Sash from the residual damage from Bad Dreams. A Choice Scarf user helps deal with Darkrai by outspeeding it and potentially KOing it or forcing it out. Genesect is good in this regard as not only does it force Darkrai out, but also has STAB U-turn that can allow you to pivot back into Greninja, and for this reason is also a good anti-lead against an opponent's lead Deoxys-Speed if your Greninja is not running Night Slash. Zekrom can also do the same with Volt Switch, but will not hit Darkrai or Deoxys-Speed for super effective damage and is blocked entirely by Primal Groudon. While Kyogre, Zekrom, and Xerneas are also effective Choice Scarf users, they require a little more prediction to use than Genesect, as being locked into the wrong move can give your opponent a free opportunity to use Defog as you switch out.

 

ORAS Singles Ubers Checks and Counters to Greninja

  • 0vrs5qm.png
    By virtue of Magic Bounce, Mega Sableye completely shuts down Greninja by redirecting Greninja's entry hazards back onto Greninja's side of the field, and takes minimal damage from Greninja's Shadow Sneak.
  • 212.png212-m.png
    In addition to using Defog to remove Greninja's entry hazards, Scizor/Mega Scizor can also 2HKO Greninja with Bullet Punch as Greninja tries to Taunt it. By virtue of its steel type, Scizor/Mega Scizor is also immune to Toxic Spikes, so it can come in much easier than other grounded Defoggers.
  • 487o.png
    Despite being Super Effective, Greninja's Night Slash and Shadow Sneak will fail to OHKO Origin Giratina, while Origin Giratina can just 2HKO back with its own Shadow Sneak, or OHKO after Stealth Rock if Greninja tries to use its own Shadow Sneak. Origin Giratina also does not care about Spikes or Toxic Spikes, being immune to both of them due to Levitate, while Defogging them away if Greninja doesn't use Taunt. Alternatively, Origin Giratina can just phaze Greninja out with Dragon Tail, which deals 59% damage minimum, 2HKOing it and breaking the Focus Sash.
  • Priority users: 493.png386a.png384.png212.png212-m.png
    Choice Scarf users:
    649.png382.png644.png716.png
    Being able to outspeed Greninja, Choice Scarf and Priority users can limit it to only one set of entry hazards. Zekrom and Genesect can also use Volt Switch and U-turn, respectively, to safely pivot into another Pokemon such as a priority user or Defogger. Rayquaza and Deoxys-Attack, though the latter is pathetically weak to Shadow Sneak, can outprioritize Shadow Sneak with Extremespeed and hit Greninja hard.
  • 250.png383-p.png
    Being slower than Greninja, Ho-oh has a 50% chance of bypassing Greninja's Focus Sash and OHKOing it with Sacred Fire due to its absurdly high burn rate by playing around the fact that Protean will remove Greninja's Water typing, limiting it to only one set of hazards. Primal Groudon's support set is in a similar boat, OHKOing Greninja with the combination of Burn with STAB Lava Plume under Desolate Lands, but it should be noted that Lava Plume has only a 30% burn rate compared to Sacred Fire's 50%.
  • 115-m.png
    Mega Kangaskhan does not care about Focus Sash, as Parental Bond will allow her to easily bypass it and OHKO Greninja.
  • 150-mx.png
    Mega Mewtwo X is the only form of Mewtwo that is not 2HKOed by the combination of Night Slash and Shadow Sneak, and can Taunt Greninja to prevent it from setting up entry hazards while 2HKOing it with Zen Headbutt if it tries to Shadow Sneak while Greninja only has a 44% chance to 3HKO with Shadow Sneak. If Mega Mewtwo X runs Bulk Up, Shadow Sneak becomes a guaranteed 4HKO if Greninja uses Shadow Sneak first.

 

Doubles OU Overview
ORAS Doubles OU Viability: C
Viability changes from X&Y Doubles OU: C -> C

At first glance, one will notice that Greninja gains the exclusive move Mat Block. In a Double battle, Mat Block essentially works like Protect, except that it affects both Greninja and its teammate from everything that isnt a status move. Surely one would think that Mat Block is an improved version of Wide Guard, as it protects both Pokemon from all damaging attacks rather than spread moves like Earthquake, until one sees that it can only be used on the first turn just like Fake Out. But Fake Out is an excellent move in Doubles, so why is Greninja ranked so low? The main reason is because unlike Wide Guard, Protect, and Fake Out, Mat Block has no priority. While this may not look like an issue at first glance since Greninja is naturally fast to begin with, this leaves Greninja completely at the mercy of faster Pokemon and priority users. Sending Greninja out to use Mat Block to avoid your Trick Room setter from being KOed? Say hello to Fake Out and a wasted turn. Furthermore, while Greninja's frailty is almost a non-issue in Singles, Doubles favors bulky Pokemon that can take a hit, which Greninja cannot do. Greninja's speed also accounts for much less when speed control measures such as Tailwind and Trick Room are much much more common. However, Greninja does have a few things going for it, such as Protean, giving it STAB on all of its attacks

 

ORAS OU Doubles Moveset: Attacker
658.png
Ability: Protean / Item: @Life Orb or Focus Sash
Nature: Naive w/ EVs: 4 Attack / 252 Sp.Attack / 252 Speed
Moves: Hydro Pump / Ice Beam or Blizzard / Rock Slide, Dark Pulse, or Low Kick / Protect

Tips:

  • Hydro Pump is Greninja's strongest move, and is necessary to get the KO on Pokemon such as Gengar, Mega Lucario, and Rotom-Heat.
  • The 2nd set is dedicated to Ice type coverage, so Ice Beam fits this purpose. Blizzard should only be used if running Hail with Mega Abomasnow, as it gives Greninja a powerful spread move. Both attacks are also able to OHKO Mega Salamence, one of the most threatening Pokemon in ORAS Doubles.
  • For the third slot, Rock Slide, while being physical, allows Greninja to attempt a flinch on either opponent due to its naturally high base speed, and can also OHKO Mega Charizard Y due to Protean. Low Kick can be used instead, as it lets Greninja deal big damage to Pokemon such Mega Kangaskhan, Tyranitar, Terrakion, Ferrothorn. Dark Pulse can also be used, as it is Greninja's best option against Aegislash.
  • Protect is crucial to any Pokemon in Doubles and Greninja is no exception, especially since Greninja is very vulnerable.
  • The above EV spread makes Greninja as fast and as powerful as possible, without taking away from either of its offense stats.
  • Life Orb increases Greninja's damage output even further, while Focus Sash gives it much needed longevity, forcing the opponent to double target Greninja in order to KO it.
  • It is best to use Greninja as a lead, using Protect to scout for potential Choice Scarf users or to both incoming Fake Outs.

Recommended Teammates:

  • 115-m.png303-m.png663.png373-m.png
    Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Mawile, Talonflame, and Mega Salamence can all help Greninja deal with slower Pokemon that can KO Greninja by virtue of their sheer offensive power. Mega Salamence in particular can also dampen physical attackers with Intimidate prior to Mega Evolving. Mega Kangaskhan also has access to Fake Out, easing the pressure on Greninja so that it only has to worry about being attacked by 1 Pokemon instead of two.
  • 460-m.png
    Mega Abomasnow can provide hail to Greninja so that it can fire off 100% accuracy Blizzards, though should not be used with Focus Sash as Hail will break it. Furthermore, Greninja can run Dark Pulse to break most Pokemon that resist Blizzard, namely Aegislash.
  • 591.png385.png468.png
    Due to Greninja's frailty, redirecting attacks using Follow Me or Rage Powder is not out of the question, though Greninja now only need to worry about spread damage moves.

 

ORAS Singles OU Checks and Counters to Greninja

  • 479w.png
    Rotom-Wash can easily take a hit from any of Greninja's attacks and hit back with Thunderbolt, or burn Greninja's teammate.
  • Speed Control users  (468.png488.png130.png385.png245.png663.png635.png683.png)
    Greninja's high speed is much easier to circumvent in Doubles, as without it, Greninja is essentially a frail Pokemon and a prime target for a KO.
  • Choice Scarf & Priority users (115-m.png645-s.png303-m.png663.png184.png286.png534.png282.png560.png448-m.png)
    Being able to outspeed Greninja is an easy way to KO it. Breloom and Conkeldurr, in particular, has STAB super effective Mach Punches to destroy Greninja with before it can change its type. Mega Kangaskhan and Scrafty can not only outspeed with Fake Out, but also flinch Greninja while breaking its Focus Sash.
  • 303-m.png
    In addition to hitting hard with Sucker Punch and potentially KOing Greninja with it, even when resisted, Mega Mawile also stomachs any attack Greninja can throw at it, resisting Ice Beam and Dark Pulse, while surviving Hydro Pump and Low Kick.
  • 591.png385.png468.png
    Outside of Rock Slide and Blizzard, Greninja cannot do much if its attacks are being redirected by Follow Me and Rage Powder away from their intended targets. Even if Greninja does manage to KO them (Togekiss and Amoonguss are susceptible to Ice Beam), it leaves itself open to their teammate, who more than likely have an easier time KOing Greninja than the Follow Me/Rage Powder user can.
  • 492s.png254-m.png386a.png
    Pokemon capable of naturally outspeeding Greninja, such as Sky Shaymin, Mega Sceptile and Deoxys-Attack, can hit it with powerful attacks such Seed Flare, though the former two do not like Ice Beam.
  • 006-my.png+003.png
    186.png+272.png230.png260-m.png
    248.png+530.png
    Pokemon capable of doubling their speed under weather through the use of Chlorophyll, Swift Swim, and Sand Rush can also take advantage of outspeeding Greninja and KOing it. Swift Swimmers in particular can stomach most of Greninja's attacks by nature of their Water typing, even when under Rain, while Ludicolo is 4x resistant to Hydro Pump. Venusaur and Excadrill, however, are susceptible to Ice Beam and Hydro Pump, respectively, though Mega Charizard Y's Drought will severely hamper Greninja's damage output with Hydro Pump, while striking hard with Solar Beam.

 

External Links

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Condensed the Rotom-Wash and Empoleon in Singles OU checks & counters section into just bulky waters, while also adding Alomomola, Normal Gyarados, and Tentacruel. Also since the ORAS Ubers viability ranks got updated, Greninja is now listed at its current B- ranking in ubers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since next week will be busy for me, I decided to do the PotW a little early.

 

Chesnaught
chesnaught.gif

Type: Grass/Fighting

Tier Status (Singles): UU
Tier Status (Doubles): DUU

Base Stats: 88 / 107 / 122 / 74 / 75 / 64

Abilities (Normal):

  • Overgrow: If this Pokemon's HP is 33% of its maximum HP or lower, the base power of this Pokemon's Grass-type attacks are increased by 50%.
  • Bulletproof (Hidden Ability): This Pokemon is immune to the following Bullet and Bomb-based attack moves:
    • Acid Spray* (JPN: Acid Bomb)
    • Aura Sphere* (JPN: Wave Bomb)
    • Barrage* (JPN: Ball Throw)
    • Bullet Seed
    • Electro Ball
    • Energy Ball
    • Focus Blast* (JPN: Fighting Spirit Bullet)
    • Gyro Ball
    • Ice Ball
    • Magnet Bomb
    • Mist Ball
    • Mud Bomb
    • Octazooka* (JPN: Octillery Cannon)
    • Rock Wrecker* (JPN: Rock Cannon)
    • Searing Shot* (JPN: Flame Bomb)
    • Seed Bomb
    • Shadow Ball
    • Sludge Bomb
    • Weather Ball
    • Zap Cannon

Table of Contents

  • Singles UU Overview
  • Singles OU Overview
  • Singles Ubers Overview
  • Doubles OU Overview

 

 

Singles UU Overview
ORAS Singles UU Viability: B
Viability changes from X&Y Singles UU: B+ -> B

Meet Chesnaught, the second of the three Kalos starters. As its appearance and base stats suggest, Chesnaught is very bulky on the physical side, and is one of the better utility Pokemon in UU, capable of walling physical attackers with Spiky Shield, a semi-exclusive variation of Protect that deals passive damage to attackers using contact moves, while supporting the team with Leech Seed and Spikes. Its signature ability Bulletproof is a godsend, as it renders it immune to Sludge Bomb, allowing it to wall any Roserade that doesn't carry Hidden Power Fire. However, Chesnaught is quite slow, and its special bulk is nowhere near as good as its physical bulk.


UU Singles Moveset: Spikes
652.png
Ability: Bulletproof / Item: @Leftovers or Rocky Helmet
Nature: Impish w/ EVs: 252 HP / 4 Attack / 252 Defense
Moves: Leech Seed / Synthesis or Spiky Shield / Spikes / Wood Hammer, Seed Bomb, or Drain Punch

Tips:

  • Leech Seed is Chesnaught's primary form of Recovery, allowing it to heal back a good amount of HP in conjunction with Leftovers and Spiky Shield.
  • For the second moveslot, Synthesis provides immediate recovery. Though Spiky Shield leaves Chesnaught vulnerable to status and Taunt, it allows Chesnaught to buy time for Leftovers and Leech Seed recovery, while simultaneously harassing physical attackers that commonly use contact moves with passive damage.
  • Spikes can further support the team with Chesnaught's utility, punishing an opponent's switch and pressuring them to remove your entry hazards sooner.
  • The last moveslot depends on your team's needs. Drain Punch is Chesnaught's secondary form of recovery, and can heal good amounts of HP when backed by STAB and 107 base attack, even when uninvested. Wood Hammer and Seed Bomb provide Grass type STAB that can punish bulky Water types who don't particularly care about Drain Punch. Wood Hammer is more powerful, but cuts into Chesnaught's longevity with recoil, while Seed Bomb is a less powerful but safer alternative.
  • The given EV spread and nature ensures that Chesnaught is as physically bulky as possible.
  • For Chesnaught's item, Leftovers can provide it with additional longevity, and works well in tandem with Spiky Shield and Leech Seed. Rocky Helmet, however, can harass physical attackers and wear them down even when Chesnaught isn't using Spiky Shield.
  • Bulletproof is far superior to Overgrow, granting Chesnaught an immunity to Sludge Bomb, Shadow Ball, and Focus Blast, which are common coverage moves.
  • When switching Chesnaught in, you will generally want to use Leech Seed straight away, as even if Chesnaught is forced to switch out on the next turn, a teammate can still benefit from the healing and passive damage.
  • Don't be afraid to use Spiky Shield if you are unsure of what your opponent is going to do.
  • Don't use Spikes unless you know Chesnaught can wall your opponent, and do so only if its early or mid game.

Recommended Teammates:

  • 242.png671.png197.png
    Blissey can easily act as a special wall to compliment Chesnaught's physical bulk, and is one of the more sturdier Special walls in UU. Florges and Umbreon can also act as special walls, while both can provide Wish and Heal Bell support to rid Chesnaught of nasty burns and Toxic.
  • 121.png
    Starmie can switch in to absorb status moves for Chesnaught, and then remove it simply by switching out. Additionally, Starmie can also provide Rapid Spin support, allowing you to remove entry hazards from your side of the field while keeping Chesnaught's Spikes active on the opponent's side, a big advantage over Defog.
  • 245.png260.png073.png009-m.png134.png
    Bulky water types can provide type synergy with Chesnaught, and can form part of a Fire-Water-Grass core for your team. Suicune is a good win condition for stall and bulky offense teams that Chesnaught tends to find itself on. Swampert and Tentacruel can provide Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes, respectively, while Tentacruel and Mega Blastoise also offer Rapid Spin support. Vaporeon can also be used to pass Wishes to Chesnaught to keep it healthy.
  • 009-m.png073.png121.png232.png205.png
    Because of Chesnaught's ability to set up Spikes, trying to run Defog as your form of entry hazard control can be detrimental to Chesnaught, so utilizing Rapid Spin as your form of hazrad control is the preferred method, as it does not interfere with Chesnaught's Spikes layers. Mega Blastoise, Tentacruel, and Starmie all provide type synergy with Chesnaught. Donphan and Forretress can also be used, with the latter also being able to set up Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes, but stacks a Fire Weakness.
  • 260.png306-m.png031.png450.png464.png205.png073.png
    Since Spikes is often used as a secondary entry hazard to compliment Stealth Rock, running a Stealth Rock user may not be a bad idea. Normal Swampert, Mega Aggron, Nidoqueen, Hippowdon, Rhyperior, and Forretress can all provide this. Tentacruel, Forretress, and Nidoqueen can also provide Toxic Spikes if needed. Rhyperior in general can also provide coverage, both offensively and defensively, against the Flying types that like to harass Chesnaught. Mega Aggron also has the ability to phaze the opponent out with Dragon Tail, racking up the entry hazard damage from Chesnaught's Spikes.

 

Singles UU Checks & Counters to Chesnaught

  • 142-m.png169.png715.png469.png018-m.png
    Flying types give Chesnaught a headache, not only because Chesnaught is 4x to Flying, but also because of their resistance to Drain Punch. Crobat is notable among these as not only does it wall Chesnaught and threaten to KO with Brave Bird, but can also remove Chesnaught's entry hazards with Defog as it is forced to switch out.
  • 251.png492.pngns1PnDU.png547.png479m.png640.png709.png711.png591.png
    Opposing grass types can be a nuisance to Chesnaught as they switch into Leech Seed, blocking it. Celebi, Amoonguss, and Whimsicott also resist Drain Punch, while Trevenant and the Gourgeist formes are immune to it completely as they burn Chesnaught with Will-o-Wisp. Celebi and Mega Sceptile can both hit Chesnaught's lower Special Defense, while Celebi also has an offensive type advantage. Whimsicott can shut down Chesnaught with priority Taunt and Encore.
  • 555.png244.png392.png479h.png609.png
    Like Flying, Fairy and Fire types also give Chesnaught problems. Chandelure is notable for being immune to Drain Punch.
  • Special Attackers
    Due to Chesnaught's lower special bulk, most special attackers in UU have no problems dealing with Chesnaught.
  • Taunt
    Taunt completely shuts down Chesnaught by cutting off its main forms of recovery and its ability to lay down Spikes.
  • Toxic and Will-o-Wisp
    Both Toxic and Will-o-Wisp cut into Chesnaught's longevity, with Toxic limiting the number of turns Chesnaught can stay in before Toxic deals too much damage for it to handle, while Will-o-Wisp removes Chesnaught's offensive presence and reduces the amount of HP it can gain back from Drain Punch, while also negating its Leftovers recovery.

 

 

 

Singles OU Overview
ORAS Singles OU Viability: B
Viability changes from X&Y Singles UU: B -> B

Though Chesnaught is not an OU Pokemon, it has had a bit of history in OU. Prior to Aegislash's ban in OU, Chesnaught had a significant niche in being able to check Aegislash, being immune to its powerful Shadow Balls and threatening it back with Earthquake. Players eventually adapted to this by running Toxic, which helped lead to Aegislash's ban. Nonetheless, Chesnaught still made its way onto Stall teams as a defensive user of Spikes, though often found competition for the slot of defensive Grass type from Amoonguss and Mega Venusaur.

ORAS was kind to Chesnaught as it gave it access to Drain Punch, offering Chesnaught a form of recovery without having to rely on Synthesis. That being said, Chesnaught is still held back by Birdspam teams, and many of the new Mega Evolutions introduced in ORAS either counter or check Chesnaught. Due to its role as a slow support Pokemon, it is also susceptible to fast Taunt users commonly found on Offensive teams.


OU Singles Moveset: Tank
652.png
Ability: Bulletproof / Item: @Leftovers or Rocky Helmet
Nature: Impish w/ EVs: 252 HP / 252 Defense / 4 Sp.Defense
Moves: Leech Seed / Spiky Shield / Drain Punch / Spikes, Wood Hammer or Seed Bomb

Tips:

  • Leech Seed is Chesnaught's primary form of Recovery, allowing it to heal back a good amount of HP in conjunction with Leftovers and Spiky Shield.
  • Spiky Shield is a must on Chesnaught. Though it leaves Chesnaught vulnerable to status and Taunt, it allows Chesnaught to buy time for Leftovers and Leech Seed recovery, while simultaneously harassing physical attackers that commonly use contact moves with passive damage.
  • Drain Punch is Chesnaught's secondary form of recovery, and can heal good amounts of HP when backed by STAB and 107 base attack, even when uninvested.
  • The last moveslot depends on your team's needs. Spikes can be used so that Chesnaught can further support the team with its utility, punishing an opponent's switch and pressuring them to remove your entry hazards sooner. Wood Hammer and Seed Bomb provide Grass type STAB that can punish bulky Water types who don't particularly care about Drain Punch. Wood Hammer is more powerful, but cuts into Chesnaught's longevity with recoil, while Seed Bomb is a less powerful but safer alternative.
  • The given EV spread and nature ensures that Chesnaught is as physically bulky as possible.
  • For Chesnaught's item, Leftovers can provide it with additional longevity, and works well in tandem with Spiky Shield and Leech Seed. Rocky Helmet, however, can harass physical attackers and wear them down even when Chesnaught isn't using Spiky Shield.
  • Bulletproof is far superior to Overgrow, granting Chesnaught an immunity to Sludge Bomb, Shadow Ball, and Focus Blast, which are common coverage moves.
  • Your first priority with Chesnaught should be to Leech Seed as soon as possible unless your opponent has an opposing Grass type, as the passive damage from Leech Seed can pressure them to switch, especially if they can't hurt Chesnaught, which can be punished by either setting up Spikes or using Leech Seed on the incoming switch.
  • Spiky Shield not only allows Chesnaught to buy time for recovery and harass physical attackers, but also Choice item users, scouting their moves and allowing you respond once they are locked into their move.
  • Spikes should be used on predicted switches, as Chesnaught forces alot of them. If you suspect your opponent to bring in their Rapid Spin or Defog user, go for Leech Seed instead.
  • Don't waste any opportunities to use Drain Punch if you know Chesnaught can KO them, especially if facing Bisharp.
  • Although Spiky Shield works similar to Protect, it does not protect Chesnaught from status moves.
  • Keep in mind that Chesnaught hates Special attackers.

Recommended Teammates:

  • 113.png036.png485.png
    Chansey can not only wall the Special attackers that can easily destroy Chesnaught, but also heal status or provide Stealth Rocks, which stacks with Chesnaught's Spikes. Clefable can also work in a similar manner, and can also pass Wishes to Chesnaught. Like Chansey, Heatran can also wall most special attacks and provide Chesnaught with Stealth Rock support, but Heatran can also check Birdspam. Heatran also has great type synergy with Chesnaught in general, as they resist most of the other's type weaknesses, and can form part of a Fire-Water-Grass core for the team.
  • 080.pngx568l7X.png130.png479w.png594.png
    Slowbro and Mega Slowbro are easily two of the bulkier Water types in OU, and can form part of a Fire-Water-Grass core with Chesnaught. Normal Gyarados, Rotom-Wash, and Alomomola are also pretty bulky in their own right, and Alomomola can also provide Wish support.
  • 625.png094.png680.png
    With Spikes, you will easily find yourself having problems with an opponent's Defog and Rapid Spin users. Bisharp handles the former by gaining a free attack boost, while Gengar blocks the latter with its Ghost typing. On Stall teams, Doublade can also provide the same Spinblocking role as Gengar.

Singles OU Checks & Counters to Chesnaught

  • 663.png142-m.png145.png642.png127-m.png398.png227.png
    Flying types give Chesnaught a headache, not only because Chesnaught is 4x to Flying, but also because of their resistance to Drain Punch. Talonflame and Mega Aerodactyl in particular can OHKO with Brave Bird and Aerial Ace, respectively, while preventing Chesnaught from doing anything with Taunt. Zapdos and Thundurus do not have Flying type STAB moves, but do not care about Drain Punch, and can hit Chesnaught's weaker Special Defense with Heat Wave and Hidden Power Ice. Zapdos can also clear away its Spikes with Defog. Skarmory can't threaten Chesnaught directly unless it runs Brave Bird, but can easily wall it by shutting Chesnaught down with Taunt and removing its hazards with Defog while Roosting off the damage.
  • 0vrs5qm.pngWHn0uhM.png
    Mega Sableye completely walls Chesnaught, being immune to Drain Punch while bouncing Leech Seed and Spikes back onto Chesnaught's side of the field, all while burning it with Will-o-Wisp. Mega Diancie works in a similar fashion, and can OHKO with Moonblast.
  • 282-m.png700.pngelvqhTa.pngWHn0uhM.png036.png468.png184.png
    Fairy types in general can also spell doom for Chesnaught. Mega Gardevoir, Sylveon and Mega Altaria can easily OHKO with Pixilate Hyper Voice and Pixilate Return, and Mega Diancie has already been mentioned above. Magic Guard Clefable doesn't care about either Spikes or Leech Seed, resists Drain Punch, and KOs with Moonblast. Togekiss can also threaten an OHKO with Air Slash. Azumarill can also check Chesnaught and threaten to KO with Play Rough, but will not enjoy taking a Seed Bomb or Wood Hammer, especially since Chesnaught can outspeed it.
  • 003-m.pngns1PnDU.png591.png
    Mega Venusaur and Mega Sceptile can both hit Chesnaught on its weaker special side, and both are immune to Leech Seed. Although Mega Venusaur cannot OHKO with STAB Sludge Bomb due to Bulletproof, both can threaten to KO with Hidden Power Fire. Amoonguss works similar to Mega Venusaur, but cannot touch Chesnaught unless it runs Clear Smog.
  • 663.png006-mx.png006-my.png485.png
    Fire also gives Chesnaught headaches, especially since most Fire types are special attackers. It should be noted that Heatran risks being KOed by Drain Punch, so it will not be able to safely switch in, but can otherwise threaten Chesnaught.
  • 376-m.png
    Mega Metagross does not care too much for Drain Punch, and a Tough Claws-boosted Ice Punch will seriously hurt Chesnaught, but Mega Metagross does not enjoy being affected by Leech Seed.
  • 658.png646-b.png473.png
    Greninja, Black Kyurem, and Mamoswine can all outspeed and KO Chesnaught with their STAB Ice attacks, though none of them will be able to switch into a Drain Punch.
  • 310-m.png243.png
    Mega Manectric and Raikou easily outspeed Chesnaught and hit with Overheat and Hidden Power Ice, the former scoring an OHKO, though Raikou requires a Calm Mind boost or a Choice Specs to 2HKO with Hidden Power Ice, while Chesnaught can 2HKO Raikou with Drain Punch.
  • 380.png380-m.png(Latias)381.png
    Latias and Mega Latias can 2HKO Chesnaught with Draco Meteor and Psyshock, while Mega Latias can do the same with Stored Power after a single Calm Mind boost. Latios can easily OHKO Chesnaught with a Life Orb boosted Draco Meteor. Both Latios and Latias resist Drain Punch while also removing Chesnaught's Spikes with Defog.

 

 

 

Singles Ubers Overview
ORAS Singles OU Viability: F
Viability changes from X&Y Singles UU: F -> F

There is no reason to use Chesnaught in Ubers. Chesnaught faces competition from Ferrothorn and even Forretress to the point where its considered outclassed. There are much better options for a tank, and many of the top threats easily wall or destroy Chesnaught (383-p.png094-m.pngY63zdgN.png716.png493-ghost.png250.png382-p.png380.png381.png150.png150-my.png717.png483.png487o.png249.png257.png257-m.png386a.png386s.pngWHn0uhM.png150-mx.png384.png, which comprises over 66% of the S and A ranks alone)

 

 

 

 

Doubles OU Overview
ORAS Doubles OU Viability: F
Viability changes from X&Y Singles UU: F -> F

The bulletproof Chestnut fails to make a splash in Doubles. While you might think that Chesnaught may be able to succeed on Trick Room teams where its low speed becomes an asset, being a physical attacker is more of a hindrance than a positive when Intimidate and Will-o-Wisp are so common as a result of many dangerous physical attackers like Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Salamence. Spikes is next to useless in Double battles. Chesnaught does has a niche in being able to survive Fake Out + Return from Mega Kangaskhan while OHKOing it back, but cant do anything to Mega Salamence or Landorus-Therian. It also faces competition from Ferrothorn in the role of a bulky Grass type. Against the top threats in Doubles:

 

 

S Rank
115-m.png: Avoids the KO from Fake Out + Return while OHKOing back with Hammer Arm, though requires a specific spread to do so.

645-s.png: Cannot touch Landorus-Therian, especially after Intimidate.

373-m.png: Chesnaught OHKOed by Aerialate boosted STAB moves.

Total positive matchups: 1/3

 

 

A+ Rank
485.png: Outspeeds and KOs with Fire STAB, beating Chesnaught 1vs1

303-m.png: OHKOs Chesnaught  with Play Rough

376-m.png: Outspeeds and 2HKOs with Zen Headbutt, while is 3HKOed by Hammer Arm, and 4HKOed by Drain Punch

186.png: Chesnaught OHKOs with Wood Hammer, while cannot 2HKO with Ice coverage

479w.png: Chesnaught OHKOs with Wood Hammer, while Hydro Pump is 5HKO at best.

642.png: Resists Chesnaught's STAB attacks, Taunts Chesnaught and 3HKOs with Hidden Power Ice.

468.png: Chesnaught is OHKOed by Air Slash.

Total positive matchups: 2/7

 

 

A Rank
681.png: Resists Grass, immune to fighting, 2HKOs Chesnaught with Flash Cannon.

591.png: Resists both STABs, but cant do much back.

625.png: Chesnaught OHKOs with Fighting STAB while Bisharp can only 3HKO in return.

488.png: Offensive variants 2HKO with Ice Beam, while Chesnaught 3HKOs with Wood Hammer.

094.png094-m.png: Traps Chesnaught and either OHKOs with Sludge Wave, or walls Chesnaught while waiting for Perish Song to KO.

130.png: Gyarados 3HKOed by Wood Hammer after Intimidate, Icy Wind is a pathetic 8HKO.

130-m.png: Mega Gyarados OHKOed by both STABs while can only 2HKO with Ice Fang.

385.png: Doesn't care too much for Chesnaught's Fighting STAB, but can't do much in return, and can redirect Chesnaught's attacks with Follow Me.

646-b.png: OHKOs Chesnaught with Ice Beam

381.png381-m.png: OHKOs Chesnaught with Draco Meteor

492s.png: OHKOs Chesnaught with Air Slash.

245.png: Defensive 2HKOed by Wood Hammer, but outspeeds and 2HKOs Chesnaught with Ice Beam after recoil. Offensive is OHKOed by Wood Hammer.

663.png: OHKOs Chesnaught with Brave Bird

639.png: 2HKOs Chesnaught with Close Combat, but is OHKOed by either STAB.

248.png248-m.png: Avoids the OHKO with Chople Berry, but only Special attacking variants can 2HKO. Mega loses to Chesnaught.

003.png003-m.png: Normal walls Chesnaught and 2HKOs with Sun boosted Hidden Power Fire. Mega can wall Chesnaught and put it to sleep, but cannot threaten it otherwise.

Total positive matchups: 6/20

 

 

A- Rank
 
184.png: Outsped by Chesnaught and OHKOed by Wood Hammer.

286.png: 2HKOed by Hammer Arm, while can't do anything to Chesnaught in return.

006-mx.png: Flare Blitz OHKOs.

006-my.png: Heat Wave and Fire Blast both OHKO.

534.png: Assault Vest variants lose 1v1, but variants on Trick Room teams 2HKO with Ice Punch.

530.png: Loses to Chesnaught 1v1.

445.png: is 2HKOed by Wood Hammer, and cannot 2HKO back.

445-m.png: Misses the 2HKO with Draco Meteor, and loses 1vs1.

282.png282-m.png: OHKOs with Moonblast and Hyper Voice, respectively.

635.png: Outspeeds and OHKOs Chesnaught with Fire Blast.

272.png: Outspeeds and 2HKOs Chesnaught with Ice Beam.

719.png719-m.png: Both OHKO with Moonblast, but risks being outsped and OHKOed by Wood Hammer prior to Mega Evolving.

Total positive matchups: 5/14

 

Grand Total positive matchups: 14/44

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Overgrow: If this Pokemon's HP is 33% of its maximum HP or lower, the base power of this Pokemon's Grass-type attacks are increased by 50%.
  • Bulletproof (Hidden Ability): This Pokemon is immune to the following Bullet and Bomb-based attack moves:
    • Acid Spray* (JPN: Acid Bomb)
    • Aura Sphere* (JPN: Wave Bomb)
    • Barrage* (JPN: Ball Throw)
    • Bullet Seed
    • Electro Ball
    • Energy Ball
    • Focus Blast* (JPN: Fighting Spirit Bullet)
    • Gyro Ball
    • Ice Ball
    • Magnet Bomb
    • Mist Ball
    • Mud Bomb
    • Octazooka* (JPN: Octillery Cannon)
    • Rock Wrecker* (JPN: Rock Cannon)
    • Searing Shot* (JPN: Flame Bomb)
    • Seed Bomb
    • Shadow Ball
    • Sludge Bomb
    • Weather Ball
    • Zap Cannon

Ah! so thats why I be having trouble dealing with Chesnaught when some trainers use it online. I didn't know it was immune to those moves when it has bulletproof ability. Thanks for that info Rice. :goodmood:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He actually dropped one subrank from X&Y UU (from B+ to B).

 

But then again, that drop occurred before Volcarona, Staraptor, Mega Diancie, Mega Altaria, and Togekiss got banned from UU, so there's a chance he might go back up. If a Pokemon's viability changes drastically or the metagame has changed significantly, then a Pokemon thats already been covered is eligible to be looked at again.

 

For example, Mega Charizard X dropped from S to A+ because of ORAS, so featuring Charizard as PotW again will outline those changes and why its not as viable as it used to be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Managed to find the time to write this up real quick, considering this thing is literally the most threatening Pokemon right now, it had to take this week's Ubers PotW spotlight:

 

 

Groudon & Primal Groudon
groudon.giftumblr_naxmywCHUU1rvs7gdo1_500.jpg
Tier Status (Normal): Ubers
Tier Status (Primal): Ubers
 
Type (Normal): Ground
Type (Primal): Ground/Fire

Base Stats (Normal): 100 / 150 / 140 / 100 / 90 / 90
Base Stats (Primal): 100 / 180 / 160 / 150 / 90 / 90
 
Abilities (Normal):

  • Drought: Summons Intense Sun for 5 turns (8 turns with Heat Rock) as soon as this Pokemon switches in.

Abilities (Primal):

  • Desolate Land: Summons Extremely Harsh Sun as soon as this Pokemon switches in, which lasts until the Pokemon switches out. In addition to the effects of Intense Sun, Extremely Harsh Sun cannot be overwritten except by Heavy Rain and Strong Winds, and also causes all Water-type attacks to fail.

Table of Contents

  • Singles Ubers Overview

 

 

 

Singles Ubers Overview
ORAS Singles Ubers Viability (Normal): B+
Viability changes from X&Y Singles Ubers: A -> B+
 
ORAS Singles Ubers Viability (Primal): S+
Viability changes from X&Y Singles Ubers: N/A

When Groudon was first introduced in Ruby & Sapphire for the GBA over 12 years ago, it has always sat in the shadow of its water sea counterpart, Kyogre. For starters, while Kyogre's Drizzle boosted its STAB Water attacks to dangerous levels, allowing Kyogre to easily dominate the Ubers tier as an S-rank threat for 3½ generations, Groudon got shafted as the sun could only boost its non-stab Fire attacks, most of which depended on Groudon's inferior Sp.Attack stat, and only dampened its weakness to water attacks. Despite these shortcomings, Groudon saw itself as a reliable A rank Pokemon in XY Ubers, as both a reliable setter of Stealth Rock and as a powerful bulky physical sweeper with Rock Polish.
 
With ORAS, the tables have finally turned in Groudon's favor as it received a massive buff in the form of Primal Reversion. Not only did Primal Groudon increase Groudon's already high Attack and Defense stats, but also gave it a massive buff to its Sp.Attack as well as a secondary Fire typing, so that it can now not only fully take advantage of the sun, but is now immune to both Burn and Paralysis, status conditions that could easily cut Groudon's sweeps short. Speaking of sun, Primal Groudon's Desolate Lands now summons a buffed version of sun that now not only lasts until Primal Groudon switches out, emulating the effects of infinite weather that Drought once summoned prior to X&Y, but also rendering it immune to Water, a type that would otherwise crush Groudon with its newfound 4x weakess. If that wasn't enough, the sun summoned by Desolate Lands cannot be overwritten by other weathers except for those summoned by Primal Kyogre and Mega Rayquaza, the latter of which has been banned from Ubers. Unlike Mega Evolution, which must be manually activated, Primal Reversion occurs automatically as soon as Groudon is sent out. Primal Reversion does not count as Mega Evolution, meaning that Primal Groudon not only has a much lower opportunity cost than the rest of the Ubers tier, but can also be used alongside Mega Evolutions on the same team. Outside of the Primal form, Groudon also received a signature move in the form of Precipice Blades, a stronger, albeit less accurate, version of Earthquake. All of these traits makes Primal Groudon the most threatening Pokemon in Ubers currently, usurping Kyogre's throne after its long 12 year reign.
 
Fangasming aside, Primal Groudon is perhaps one of the best checks to Xerneas and Kyogre in the tier, and is singlehandedly responsible for the decrease in viability of both Choice Scarf Kyogre and Choice Specs Kyogre. However, Groudon's Primal Reversion did nothing to buff its mediocre Sp.Defense, so it must invest towards this stat in order to effectively check the above mentioned threats. Primal Groudon is very versatile, able to fit on both offensive or defensive teams.
 

 

ORAS Ubers Singles Moveset: Defensive Primal Support
383-p.png
Ability: Drought (Desolate Lands) / Item: @Red Orb
Nature: Relaxed or Impish w/ EVs: 252 HP / 56 Defense / 200 Sp.Defense
Moves: Stealth Rock / Earthquake or Precipice Blades / Lava Plume or Stone Edge / Roar or Thunder Wave

Tips:

  • Primal Groudon is an excellent setter of Stealth Rocks due to its sheer offensive presence
  • The second moveslot is dedicated to Primal Groudon's Ground STAB. Earthquake or Precipice Blades can be used, as this moveset does not invest toward Primal Groudon's Attack, so the difference in power is minimal. The choice between Earthquake or Precipice Blades comes down to power versus accuracy.
  • For the third moveslot, Lava Plume is Primal Groudon's secondary STAB, as Primal Groudon does have an excellent 150 base Sp.Attack to abuse it with, along with the 50% base power boost from Harsh Sun, as well as the ability to spread burns. Stone Edge, however, gives Primal Groudon an option to use against Ho-oh, who walls this set otherwise.
  • The last moveslot is dedicated to further support options, and Roar and Thunder Wave are Groudon's best options, especially against Xerneas. Roar is useful for two reasons; one is to stop setup sweepers by forcing them out, which is especially useful against Geomancy Xerneas as this forces it to waste its Power Herb. The second is to rack up entry hazard damage from Stealth Rock. Thunder Wave can also stop sweepers in their tracks by cutting their speed, and also makes Latios, Latias, and Lugia easier to handle.
  • The above EV spread with a Relaxed nature makes Primal Groudon as bulky as possible against the Pokemon this moveset is meant to check, allowing it to avoid an OHKO from a +2 Xerneas's Focus Blast and opposing Primal Groudon's Precipice Blades, while also avoiding a 2HKO from Modest Specs Kyogre's Ice Beam, Adamant Zekrom's Outrage, and Jolly Mega Salamence's Double-Edge. Relaxed should be used if running Lava Plume, to avoid cutting into Primal Groudon's Sp.Attack, otherwise Impish should be used.
  • If needed, alternate EV spreads of Impish + 252 HP / 252 Defense and Careful + 252 HP / 252 Sp.Defense can be run instead. The former gives Primal Groudon an easier time against Extremekiller Arceus-Normal, Ho-oh, Mega Salamence, and Zekrom, while the latter gives better longevity against special attackers.
  • Since this set lacks Leftovers, avoid being too reckless as it can get worn down, especially with a Ground weakness.
  • Your first priority should be to set up Stealth Rock as soon as possible.

Recommended Teammates:

  • 212-m.png681.png
    Latios and Latias both give Primal Groudon trouble, as not only are they immune to Ground and resist Lava Plume, but can also remove Primal Groudon's Stealth Rocks with Defog. Mega Scizor and Aegislash are both good users of Pursuit, coming in and KOing them whether they switch out or not. These two can also do the same against Lugia, another Pokemon that gives Primal Groudon trouble.
  • 707.png493-ghost.png493-dark.png717.png491.png644.png382-p.png
    Klefki, Arceus-Ghost, Arceus-Dark, Yveltal, Darkrai, Zekrom, and Primal Kyogre are all good Pokemon that can handle Lugia quite well.
  • 493-rock.pngY63zdgN.png644.png
    Arceus-Rock, Mega Salamence, and Zekrom can all check Ho-oh if Primal Groudon isn't running Stone Edge. Arceus-Rock also has the benefit of being able to check opposing Mega Salamence.
  • 716.pngWHn0uhM.png493.png700.pngelvqhTa.png
    Fairy types such as Xerneas, Mega Diancie, Arceus-Fairy, and Sylveon all keep Yveltal and Origin Giratina in check, especially since the former can hit Primal Groudon hard with STAB Dark Aura boosted Dark Pulse, while the latter can Defog while being immune to Ground while resisting Lava Plume. These Fairy types all appreciate having Primal Groudon as a teammate as it can check the Steel types that threaten them.
  • 242.png700.png
    Wish support from Blissey and Sylveon is appreciated, as Primal Groudon lacks any form of recovery.
  • Y63zdgN.png380.png381.png487o.png484.png384.png644.pngelvqhTa.png
    Primal Groudon works as an excellent check to Fairy types, so Dragon types appreciate having Primal Groudon as a partner for this purpose.
  • 380.png487o.png249.png250.png
    Arceus-Ground easily threatens Primal Groudon, so a check to Arceus-Ground is recommended. Latias and Ho-oh can handle special variants running Judgement, while Origin Giratina and Lugia can check physical variants that run Earthquake.

 

 

 

ORAS Ubers Singles Moveset: Defensive Non-Primal Support
383.png
Ability: Drought  / Item: @Leftovers
Nature: Impish w/ EVs: 252 HP / 4 Attack / 252 Defense
Moves: Stealth Rock / Earthquake or Precipice Blades / Stone Edge / Roar or Thunder Wave

Tips:

  • Although generally inferior, this set functions identical to the Primal Support moveset.
  • The biggest niche this set has over its Primal counterpart is the ability to better check Mega Salamence, Normal-Arceus, and opposing Primal Groudon due to its lack of Ground weakness and passive recovery from Leftovers.

Recommended Teammates:

  • Same as Defensive Primal Support

 

 

 

ORAS Ubers Singles Moveset: Offensive Primal Support
383-p.png
Ability: Drought (Desolate Lands) / Item: @Red Orb
Nature: Adamant w/ EVs: 224 HP / 240 Attack / 32 Sp.Defense / 12 Speed
Moves: Stealth Rock / Precipice Blades / Dragon Tail, Dragon Claw or Stone Edge / Fire Punch or Stone Edge

Tips:

  • Primal Groudon is an excellent setter of Stealth Rocks due to its sheer offensive presence
  • Because this set invests towards Attack, Precipice Blades is the Ground STAB of choice as this moveset aims to hit as hard as possible.
  • Dragon Tail not only racks up entry hazard damage from Stealth Rock, but is also useful for dealing with Latios, Latias, Mega Salamence, and Origin Giratina, all Pokemon that Primal Groudon has trouble with otherwise. If phazing out threats isnt needed, then Dragon Claw can be run instead, as it OHKOs both Latios and Latias, while hitting Origin Giratina hard. If hitting Lugia and Ho-oh is more of a concern, Stone Edge can be used instead.
  • Fire Punch is Primal Groudon's only physical STAB Fire move, but does hit quite hard under the Sun, taking care of non-grounded Ground types as well as Arceus-Grass, Skarmory, and Yveltal. Again, Stone Edge can be used in this slot instead if Ho-oh and Lugia are a concern to you.
  • The above EV spread makes Primal Groudon hit as hard as possible while simultaneously avoiding an OHKO from both Soul Dew Latios's Draco Meteor and +2 Xernea's Focus Blast. The 12 EVs in speed allows Primal Groudon to outspeed Timid Diancie before it Mega Evolves.
  • This moveset is best suited to more offensive teams, as its offensive presence will force many switches, giving you time to set up Stealth Rock.
  • Unlike the Defensive Support set, this set isn't as good at checking Xerneas due to its lower bulk and lack of Roar, so either try to preserve its HP or run another Xerneas check on your team.

 

Recommended Teammates:

  • 212-m.png681.png
    Latios and Latias both give Primal Groudon trouble, as not only are they immune to Ground and resist Fire Punch, but can also remove Primal Groudon's Stealth Rocks with Defog. Mega Scizor and Aegislash are both good users of Pursuit, coming in and KOing them whether they switch out or not. These two can also do the same against Lugia, another Pokemon that gives Primal Groudon trouble.
  • 707.png493-ghost.png493-dark.png717.png491.png644.png382-p.png
    Klefki, Arceus-Ghost, Arceus-Dark, Yveltal, Darkrai, Zekrom, and Primal Kyogre are all good Pokemon that can handle Lugia quite well.
  • 493-rock.pngY63zdgN.png644.png
    Arceus-Rock, Mega Salamence, and Zekrom can all check Ho-oh if Primal Groudon isn't running Stone Edge. Arceus-Rock also has the benefit of being able to check opposing Mega Salamence.
  • 716.pngWHn0uhM.png493.png700.pngelvqhTa.png
    Fairy types such as Xerneas, Mega Diancie, Arceus-Fairy, and Sylveon all keep Yveltal and Origin Giratina in check, especially since the former can hit Primal Groudon hard with STAB Dark Aura boosted Dark Pulse, while the latter can Defog while being immune to Ground while resisting Fire Punch. These Fairy types all appreciate having Primal Groudon as a teammate as it can check the Steel types that threaten them.
  • 242.png700.png
    Wish support from Blissey and Sylveon is appreciated, as Primal Groudon lacks any form of recovery.
  • Y63zdgN.png380.png381.png487o.png484.png384.png644.pngelvqhTa.png
    Primal Groudon works as an excellent check to Fairy types, so Dragon types appreciate having Primal Groudon as a partner for this purpose.
  • 380.png487o.png249.png250.png
    Arceus-Ground easily threatens Primal Groudon, so a check to Arceus-Ground is recommended. Latias and Ho-oh can handle special variants running Judgement, while Origin Giratina and Lugia can check physical variants that run Earthquake.
  • 707.png212-m.png250.png681.png493.png
    Klefki, Mega Scizor, Ho-oh, Aegislash, and Arceus-Normal can all check Xerneas, which this variant has greater difficulty.
  • Y63zdgN.png493-ground.png493.png
    Due to this Primal Groudon's ability to soften up physical tanks, physical attackers such as Mega Salamence, Arceus-Ground, and Arceus-Normal all appreciate having this Primal Groudon as a teammate.

 

 

 

ORAS Ubers Singles Moveset: Primal Rock Polish Sweeper
383-p.png
Ability: Drought (Desolate Lands) / Item: @Red Orb
Nature: Adamant w/ EVs: 104 HP / 252 Attack / 96 Sp.Defense / 56 Speed
Moves: Rock Polish / Precipice Blades / Dragon Claw or Swords Dance / Stone Edge or Overheat

Tips:

  • Rock Polish doubles Primal Groudon's Speed, allowing it to become a fast and threatening sweeper with its monstrous base 180 Attack.
  • Precipice Blades is the Ground STAB of choice as this moveset aims to hit as hard as possible.
  • For the third slot, Dragon Claw is primarily a coverage move to OHKO Latios and Latias while 2HKOing Origin Giratina. Swords Dance can be used instead if you want to transform Primal Groudon into a double boosting sweeper, giving it a boosting move to use in situations against both Offensive teams (Rock Polish) and Defensive teams (Swords Dance) alike.
  • For the last slot, Stone Edge gives great neutral coverage with Precipice Blades, and used primarily for hitting Ho-oh, Lugia, and Yveltal. Although it doesn't use Primal Groudon's fully invested attack, Overheat is Primal Groudon's best option for getting past Landorus-Therian, Skarmory, and Gliscor, all of which can tank Primal Groudon's hits otherwise.
  • The above EV spread maximizes Primal Groudon's monster attack stat, while the HP and Sp.Defense EVs allow it to survive a +2 Xerneas's Focus Blast as well as Defensive Primal Groudon's Precipice Blades. 56 Speed EVs allow it to outspeed most Choice Scarf users after a single Rock Polish.
  • As a sweeper, this Primal Groudon is best used late game. As such, don't waste its health by switching it in to check your opponent's Pokemon.
  • It is best to set up against Steel and Fairy types, or defensive Pokemon who can't do much to you in general. Another scenario that is best to set up a Rock Polish is on a predicted switch, as Primal Groudon's offensive presence tends to cause a lot of them.

 

Recommended Teammates:

  • 717.png250.png
    If this moveset doesn't run Overheat, Landorus-Therian, Skarmory, and Gliscor can simply come in and tank your attacks with ease. Yveltal can easily smack all three of them for their lower Sp.Defense stat, while Ho-oh can KO Skamory with Sacred Fire and cripple Landorus-Therian & Gliscor with a burn.
  • 491.png717.png493-dark.png493-ghost.png or Toxic
    Without Swords Dance, Lugia can be quite annoying, even if you run Stone Edge. Dark types such as Darkrai, Yveltal, and Arceus-Dark can all handle Lugia, as can Arceus-Ghost. Toxic can also put Lugia on a timer, limiting the amount of turns it can stay in for, while also breaking its Multiscale.
  • 384.png
    Mixed Rayquaza can take on many general checks to physical attackers, including those that check Primal Groudon.
  • 493.pngY63zdgN.png
    If using Swords Dance, Primal Groudon can double as a wallbreaker for other physical sweeper, such as Mega Salamence or Arceus-Normal.
  • 386s.png386a.png483.png
    As is the case with any sweeper, Stealth Rock support makes Primal Groudon's sweeping job easier, especially when it helps check Lugia and Ho-oh. Deoxys-Speed, Deoxys-Attack, and Dialga are all good choices for offensive Stealth Rockers.

 

 

 

ORAS Ubers Singles Moveset: Primal Paralysis Swords Dancer
383-p.png
Ability: Drought (Desolate Lands) / Item: @Red Orb
Nature: Adamant w/ EVs: 252 HP / 100 Attack / 144 Sp.Defense / 12 Speed
Moves: Swords Dance / Precipice Blades / Thunder Wave / Stone Edge

Tips:

  • Swords Dance doubles Primal Groudon's already monstrous Attack even further.
  • Precipice Blades is the Ground STAB of choice as this moveset aims to hit as hard as possible.
  • Thunder Wave is used primarily for Xerneas, Lugia, Latios, and Latias, all of which become significantly easier for Primal Groudon to handle once paralyzed.
  • Stone Edge is used for hitting the aforementioned Lugia and Lati twins, and has great neutral coverage with Precipice Blades.
  • The above EV spread allows Primal Groudon to OHKO Lugia with a +2 Stone Edge after Multiscale is broken, while outspeeding Diancie prior to Mega Evolving and surviving a +2 Xerneas's Focus Blast.
  • This set is mostly a lure for Lugia, Latios, and Latias, paralyzing them on the switch-in and KOing them.
  • This moveset also attempts to turn Primal Groudon into a hybrid sweeper and support Pokemon, allowing it to check Geomancy Xerneas while still posing a threat to bulkier teams.
  • Unlike this Rock Polish Sweeper, this moveset works better on balanced and bulky offense teams.

Recommended Teammates:

  • Y63zdgN.png493.png382-p.png
    Pokemon that dislike the presence of Lugia, Latios, and Latias appreciate this moveset's ability to cripple them. Examples of such Pokemon include Mega Salamence, Arceus-Normal, and Primal Kyogre.
  • 380.png487o.png249.png250.png
    Because it cannot be paralyzed by Thunder Wave, Arceus-Ground can pose problems. Latias and Ho-oh can handle special variants running Judgement, while Origin Giratina and Lugia can check physical variants that run Earthquake.
  • 483.png248.png719.pngWHn0uhM.png
    As is the case with the Rock Polish set, Stealth Rock support makes Primal Groudon's sweeping job easier, especially when it helps check Lugia and Ho-oh. Because this Primal Groudon set works better on bulkier teams, bulkier Stealth Rock setters such as Dialga, Tyranitar, and Diancie are preferred.

 

 

Singles Ubers Checks & Counters to Groudon & Primal Groudon

  • Entry Hazards & Status

    Because Primal Groudon lacks any form of recovery, it is prone to being worn down over time, especially since as Primal Groudon, it loses its resistance to Stealth Rock.
  • 249.png
    Lugia is perhaps the best check to Primal Groudon, setting up Reflect to sponge Primal Groudon's attacks while cutting into its lifespan with Toxic, while Recovering off damage and reactivating Multiscale. Once Multiscale is broken, Stone Edge will do a number to it and it also hates being Paralyzed.
  • 493-ground.png(Ground)
    Arceus-Ground can survive a hit from Primal Groudon and easily outspeed and KO with either Earthquake or Judgement, depending on whether Arceus-Ground is physical or special based, and then Recover off the damage. Bulkier Primal Groudon sets can live an unboosted hit, however.
  • 487o.png
    Origin Giratina is immune to Primal Groudon's Ground STAB and only fears Dragon Claw, but can otherwise hit hard with Draco Meteor or Shadow Force, phaze Primal Groudon out with Dragon Tail, or remove its Stealth Rocks with Defog.
  • 381.png380.png384.png
    Latios, Latias, and Rayquaza resist Primal Groudon's STAB combo and outspeed, while the former two can deal a number with Soul Dew-boosted Draco Meteor, with Latios potentially scoring an OHKO. All of them fear Dragon Claw and +2 Stone Edge, however, and Rayquaza hates getting burned by Lava Plume.
  • Y63zdgN.png
    Bulky variants of Mega Salamence can pose problems for Primal Groudon for similar reasons as Rayquaza.
  • 382-p.png
    Primal Kyogre's Primordial Sea is the only weather in Ubers that can override Primal Groudon's Desolate Lands, turning its Water immunity into a x4 Weakness and threatening it with Origin Pulse.
  • 717.png
    Physically Defensive Yveltal can handle the Rock Polish set, while offensive Yveltal can hit hard with Dark Aura-boosted Dark Pulse, though the latter dislikes being hit by Stone Edge and Fire Punch.
  • 250.png
    Any Primal Groudon not carrying Stone Edge is instantly walled by Ho-oh.
  • 383.png
    One of Primal Groudon's checks is, ironically, normal Groudon, who does not sport the Primal forme's Ground weakness, allowing it to hit back harder with its own Precipice Blades or Earthquake.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Considering Groudon was another legend pokemon it was'nt used very much since it was weak against grass and water-types back in the days. But thanks to its Primal form and new and improve ability It has a chance

Personally I'm glad Groundon gotten this upgrade which means he can handle grass type pokemon with no problem. Plus he has a fair chance against Kyogre in a way but it all depends on if you summon Groudon Later + have 'Solar Beam' ready.

:goodmood:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where exactly do you see Solarbeam in the analysis? What are you hitting with Solarbeam, exactly?

Hitting Water-types of course. :-P

Groundon does need some coverage for dealing with them right?

 

Then again it has the move 'Precipice Blades' so it may not need 'SolarBeam' unless its dealing with water/flying types But hell 'Stone-Edge' with 'Stealth-Rock should take care of that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What are Water types doing to Primal Groudon, though? And what is Solarbeam KOing that isnt already KOed by Earthquake/Precipice Blades or Stone Edge?

 

382-p.png382.png

0 Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 237-280 (69.2 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 301-355 (88 - 103.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Primal Groudon Solar Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 184-218 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

383.png

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 157-186 (38.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Primal Groudon Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon in Sun: 202-238 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Primal Groudon Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 268-316 (66.3 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

484.png

0 Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Palkia: 217-256 (67.3 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Palkia: 276-325 (85.7 - 100.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Primal Groudon Solar Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Palkia: 105-124 (32.6 - 38.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

 

493-ground.png

0 Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 186-219 (48.8 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 237-279 (62.2 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Primal Groudon Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arceus-Ground: 210-248 (55.1 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

645-s.png

0 SpA Primal Groudon Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T in Sun: 222-262 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 79-94 (20.6 - 24.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Primal Groudon Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 147-174 (38.4 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

472.png

0 SpA Primal Groudon Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gliscor in Sun: 232-274 (65.5 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 95-112 (26.8 - 31.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

0 SpA Primal Groudon Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gliscor: 155-183 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

 

248.png

0 Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 398-470 (98.5 - 116.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 510-600 (126.2 - 148.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Primal Groudon Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar: 178-210 (44 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

493-rock.png

0 Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Rock: 372-438 (83.7 - 98.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Rock: 474-558 (106.7 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Primal Groudon Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Rock: 210-248 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

091.png

0 Atk Primal Groudon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 144-170 (59.7 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 182-216 (75.5 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Primal Groudon Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 458-540 (190 - 224%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

658.png

LOL

 

450.png

0 Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 139-165 (33 - 39.2%) -- 75.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 178-210 (42.3 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Primal Groudon Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon in Sun: 241-285 (57.3 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Primal Groudon Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 322-380 (76.6 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

195.png

0 Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 174-205 (44.1 - 52%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 220-261 (55.8 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Primal Groudon Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 692-816 (175.6 - 207.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

 

Those are pretty much the only Relevant Pokemon in Ubers that you'll be hitting with Solar Beam, and the only ones that are hit harder by Solar Beam than any of other of Primal Groudon's moves are Cloyster and Quagsire, neither of which can touch you, and Hippowdon and Normal Groudon, who are already 2HKOed by Lava Plume on defensive sets and Overheat on offensive sets, and Normal Groudon beats you 1vs1 anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...