RicePigeon

Meiling duo updated. Check first post.

http://ricepigeon.webs.com

04/27/13: Meiling Duo updated.

Changelog:

Lie Meiling:

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Version 2013.04.27 (2.0.1)
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Changes from version 2013.03.31

- Juggle System revamped
- Actual throw is now delayed a bit.
- Throw can now be teched out of. See Throw in move section for details.
- Added ability to instant airdash.
- Hitvelocities slightly reduced on all normals.
- Hitstun on j.Y and j.Z reduced.
- j.Z: Hitbox size of both hits reduced.
- j.Z: Startup increased by 3 frames
- j.Z: Number of active frames on first hit reduced.
- Ultraviolet Cannon: Command changed to Fwd+Z
- Ultraviolet Cannon: Recovery time increased. Damage slightly increased.
- Ultraviolet Cannon: Recovery animation changed. Effects added.
- Fwd+Y Overhead: Can no longer cancel into other normals
- Fwd+Y Overhead: Startup time increased by 5 frames
- Animations for Standing Light and Standing Medium attacks switched. Startup & recovery adjusted accordingly.
- Dashes can no longer be cancelled into normals on first frame.
- Standing Medium: Forward velocity removed.
- Standing Medium: Frame advantage changed to +4/-1 on hit/block.
- Crouching Medium: Recovery time reduced by 1 frame.
- Crouching Medium: Frame advantage changed to +1/-2 on hit/block.
- Four Star Sword: Z version now pushes Lie backward

- Colorless "Dichromatic Spark": Spellcard text added for both versions.
- Colorless "Dichromatic Spark": Startup animation for air version changed.
- Strike Sign "Roc's Fist": Spellcard text added.
- Piercing Heaven "Youkai Armageddon": Command added to readme file. Spellcard text added.
- Raging Youkai "Hells Instantaneous Murder": Grabbing animation on hit changed
- Raging Youkai "Hells Instantaneous Murder": Now plays different sound if opponent is KO'ed.
- Raging Youkai "Hells Instantaneous Murder": New winpose added if move KOs opponent.

Hong Meiling:

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04/27/13 - Version 2013.04.27
===================================

Changes from version 6.0:

- Meiling is now 1.0 exclusive
- Life decreased 1000 -> 900
- s.Medium (5y): Animation changed. Now launches opponent on hit.
- s.Medium (5y): Can now be jump cancelled on hit before frame 17
- New Command Normal: Fwd + Y (6y)
- s.Heavy (5z): Animation timings adjusted
- s.Heavy (5z): Now knocks opponent down on hit.
- New Command Normal: Fwd + Z (6z)
- c.Light (2x): Animation timing & hitboxes adjusted. Damage increased.
- c.Medium (2y): Damage increased. Animation timing adjusted. No longer hits OTG. No longer trips opponent.
- c.Heavy (2z): Changed to DF+Z command normal. New sweep kick c.Heavy added in its place.
- New Command Normal: Fwd + Down + z (3z): old c.Heavy/2z, no longer causes wallslam.
- j.Light (8x): Active frames increased. Damage increased
- j.Medium (8y): Animation changed. Damage increased.
- j.Heavy (8z): Animation timing changed. No longer causes wallbounce.
- New Command Normal: Down + Fwd + any attack in air (3x, 3y, or 3z): Divekick.


- Fragrant Wave: Command changed to QCB+x/y/z (214x/y/z)
- Fragrant Wave: Horizontal range of projectile hitbox decreased.
- Fragrant Wave: X version is now a fake out. Y version now hits 3 times, Z version now hits 5 times.
- Fragrant Wave: Z version now has lower body invincibility during startup.
- Fragrant Wave: Z version no longer requires 500 power.
- Tremor Kick: Startup increased on all versions. All versions now deal identical damage.
- Tremor Kick: X version no longer knocks opponent down. Recovery time increased.
- Tremor Kick: Z version recovery time decreased. Now causes crumple on hit.
- Tremor Kick: Z version no longer requires 500 power.
- Tremor Kick: All versions no longer hit OTG.
- Tremor Kick: All versions now have the same hitbox size range.

- New Special: Cyclone Light Step (QCF+x/y/z, 236x/y/z)
- New Special: Searing Rainbow Fist (xxxx yyyy or zzzz)
- New Special: Scarlet Cannon (DP+x/y/z, 623x/y/z)

- Strike Sign "Roc's Fist": Animation is now a 3 part attack.
- Strike Sign "Roc's Fist": Command changed to QCFx2+atk (236236x/y/z).
- Qi Sign "Fierce Tiger's Strength": Command changed to QCBx2+atk (214214x/y/z)
- Qi Sign "Fierce Tiger's Strength": Is now a lvl 1 super
- Qi Sign "Fierce Tiger's Strength": Unblockable effect removed. See spellcard section for more details.

- New Spellcard: Flower Sign "Colorful Light Lotus Flower Palm" - QCF,QCF+x+y+z (236236xyz)

- Removed Specials:
 Sky Dragon Kick
 Crescent Kick
 Descending Flower Slam

- Removed Spellcards:
 Rainbow Sign "Radiant Rainbow Fist"
 Qi Sign "Star Pulse Shot"
 Tremor Sign "Earth Dragon Wave"
 Falling Strike "Mountain Splitter"
 Li's Rage "Zhenfan's Way of the Dragon"
 Hundred Fist "Northern Mountain Breaker"
 Star Qi "Star Pulse Earth-Moving Shot"

- Custom cornerpush implemented
- Damage scaling redone
- All voices changed to english.
- Implemented Target Combos. See Movelist for details.
- Juggle system redone.
- Throw redone.
- Throw can now be teched out of.

Considering Laharl went and dragged me into this......

So Piccolo...

- Why does the zip file for Piccolo have the mugen executable and all associated files in it? - mugenversion is left blank - Width doesn't match his Idle CLSN boxes - Walking CLSN box is inconsistent with that of his idle stance - Standing Jab give +6 on hit, but -5 on block? - Standing Hard punch has the same startup and frame advantage as his jab? - In fact, all three of his standing normals have the exact same damage and frame advantage, including his autocombo attacks. - Speaking of which, why can he only do an autocombo on hit, but not on block? - None of his normals have any type of cornerpush due to their velocities. - Why does his aerial kick cause him to teleport? - His crouching stance is just him standing in a different pose. - Why does his teleport leave a pushbox behind him to restrict enemy movement if he does it close to them? - Why do all of his normals have afterimages on them? - Getting hit out of a flying attack makes him reappear immediately on the ground. - Crouching button layout is inconsistent. Standing X is his kick, Y is projectile, and Z is teleport, but the moment he crouches, Y becomes kick and Z becomes projectile while X does nothing? - Readme lists flying multiball blast as Z+Z+Z yet all that happens is his teleport. - He is able to cancel his teleport into itself as long as he has meter to do so. - Crouching & Standing attacks should use Statetype != A with command =/!= "holddown" as a trigger instead of S or C.

- Pausetime for non-projectile attacks should be the same for both P1 and P2.

- Recovery frames for his attacks aren't flagged using Statetypeset so Counterhits can function properly on characters that use them.

Copypasta from Guild:

- Stopping any movement will cause her to keep moving in that direction (albeit very slowly) - Light attack does +6 frame advantage on hit but -9 on block? - She still have Kung Fu Man's sounds - CLSNs on flying up & down animations need serious overhaul - Where exactly did you get your frame data from? I've noticed the following (startup, active,recovery): - Light attack: 8,3,12 / Adv hit: +5 Adv Block: -9 - Medium attack: 8,6,25 / Adv hit: -10 Adv Block: -25 - Heavy attack: 9,12,15 / Adv hit: -6 Adv Block: -21 - Fwd + Light: 14,6,19 /  -4 on hit, -19 on block - Fwd + Medium: 12,6,21  / -6 on hit, -21 on block - Fwd + Heavy: 12,9,12 / +0 on hit, -15 on block It seems odd for her heavy attacks to be safer than her Medium attack. I doubt it's like this in source? - X projectile (at close range): +2 on hit, -21 on block. - Y projectile (at point blank): +16 on hit, -17 on block. - Z projectile (at point blank): +1 on hit, -22 on block. - Due to the way you implemented her spirit meter and super bar, you can just fly in the corner and spam Fantasy Seal - All of her normals can OTG - guard.pausetime = 0,0  ;<-- why is this in every hitdef? - None of her attacks have their recovery frames flagged so counterhits can function properly. - Shes completely immune to throws, even when on the ground - She disappears during her get up animation - Every ground normal performed on Reimu uses its aerial properties even while close to ground. - Friction is wonky, it causes Reimu to get knocked back half a screen even by jabs. - She is completely immune to low attacks while on ground - On the ground, the Y velocity of hitdefs are ignored.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/6qavks


-------------------------------------
Lie Meiling
for MUGEN
-------------------------------------
Author: RicePigeon
Edits by: Darkflare
Additional Edits by: Ricepigeon

NOTE: This patch requires Darkflare's version 1.0.6

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Version 1.0.6.1
=======================================
Changes from Darkflare's version 1.0.6:

- Violet Aura re-added
- Added tick fix
- Added invulnerability frames to backdash startup
- Adjusted frame advantage on all ground normals.
- Aerial Strong no longer causes groundbounce.
- Corrected Throws. Lie now throws opponents in the proper direction
- Removed AI's ability to immediately link a throw into Dichromatic Spark
- Asura Warp redone. Command changed to DP/623 and RDP/412 as follows:
  RDP + x: half screen backward
  RDP + Y: full screen backward
  DP + X: half screen forward
  DP + Y: full screen forward
- Asura Warp: Lie now turns to face opponent if she passes them.
- Trial of the Dragon: Removed. Replaced with Seven-Star Sword.
- Seven-Star Sword: Renamed from Dichromatic Aura Sphere. Differences are as follows:
  QCF/236 + X: Stationary
  QCF/236 + Y: Half Screen + No Heat Seeking
  QCF/236 + Z: Full Screen + Heat Seeking
- Seven-Star Sword: All versions no longer cause knockdown
- Seven-Star Sword: Overall damage decrease
- Seven-Star Sword: Removed Projectile and Aerial invincibility during Y and Z versions
- Monochromatic Hurricane: Command changed back to QCB/214 + X/Y
- Axe Kick: Command changed to HCF/41236 + x/y/z
- Axe Kick: Only Z version causes ground bounce now
- Axe Kick: Altered startup and frame advantage for all 3 versions
- Dichromatic Spark: Frame Advantage on block reduced.
- Dichromatic Spark: Charge-up effect fixed/re-added.
- Dichromatic Spark: Startup frames decreased.
- Adjusted hitspark alignment on Crouching Strong.
- Hell's Instantaneous Murder: made into a 0-frame grab to be more accurate to SSF4AE
- Hell's Instantaneous Murder: Removed invincibility on active frames
- Hell's Instantaneous Murder: Added Throw invincibility to startup frames
- Hell's Instantaneous Murder: Reduced number of active frames from 40 to 36
- Hell's Instantaneous Murder: Added 13 frames of recovery on whiff.
- Hell's Instantaneous Murder: Velocity increased.

The pushback in a corner has been mentioned before, Rice (though I suppose as it's copypasta from the Guild, you wouldn't known that). I took a look at that attack's statedef myself, but couldn't find anything that'd cause such a thing to happen (it appears it's a common problem with all of Bruno_SS' characters). I believe I even removed the VelAdd/Set states to see if it'd do anything. There's also an additional HitDef state in there for some reason...?

The only thing I can think of was that he was trying to implement some kind of custom cornerpush system, as opposed to mugen's default cornerpush which is buggy as all hell, but mucked it up somehow. I would suggest he read Van's cornerpush tutorial to see how properly implement it.

Copypasta from Guild:

• A (Combo 1) cannot be blocked at point blank range due to 0 frame startup.
• A (Combo 1) also has 0 recovery frames.
• Particle effects on charge are misaligned.
• Water Gun and Surf both give back power
• Has no air or crouching normals (I'm going to assume this was intentional for whatever reason but it still feels off)
• C (Combo 3) pushes Squirtle backward during his startup frames while in the corner. Coupled with its short range, this causes it to whiff entirely. Given the 18 frame startup this attack has and the fact it has ridiculously short range and only does 30 damage, I can't see a practical use for this move at all.
• The startup frames of C (Combo 3) can be cancelled into his other attacks.[/li]Water Gun and Surf are both unblockable for some reason.
• Water Gun and Surf both have invincibility frames during the attacking portion (Surf has invincibility on ALL frames)
• Surf's Projectile has no CLSN2 boxes to allow it to collide with other projectiles
• Bubble's projectiles are classified as NA (normal attacks) in your hitdef, instead projectiles (NP). Same applies to both Water Gun and Surf's projectiles, only in those cases they should be classified as super projectiles (HP).
• Bubble, Water Gun, and Surf have no hitsparks
• B (Combo 2) and Bubble both cause no pushback on hit or block, most likely due to this:

  ground.slidetime = 0

  That should be identical to the value for hittime

Well that would mean I've got cancels then: L-M-H, L-H, M-L, but not H-L/H-M. Still produces combos though ;)

Generally speaking, chains go from L-M-H in that order. Meaning L-M and L-H should both be possible (and M-H if you're implementing magic series), but not the reverse. Of course there are exceptions (Wolverine and a few chars in SF4 can do reverse, but its generally M-L)

Aren't there some cancels that cancel out the start-up time of the next attack? That would resolve the Plasma Lance issue :)

While possible in mugen, cancels generally cancel out the recovery time of the 1st attack, not the startup of the 2nd.

Also because I promised I would https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zroLuJSVBFk

One question though. By setting the Plasma Lance so that the attack advantage is 0 when not followed up by anything, it won't register a combo when I use the Plasma Hammer as soon as the Lance makes contact :/

EDIT: It works with the Plasma Wrecker though.

You don't have to set all the attack advantages to 0, thats not what I was saying. Having positive frame advantage is fine, in fact all light attacks have some kind of frame advantage. In fact, it's because of positive frame advantage that certain combos are possible, specifically links. But for a light attack, 13 was too much.

Anyways, to answer your question I don't recall seeing the ability to cancel/chain Plasma Lance into Plasma Hammer or Wrecker, I'd have to check the cmd file again. If that was intentional, then it has to do with linking the attack rather than cancelling/chaining the attack, which is where the frame advantage comes into play. When this happens, if the startup time (that is, the time it takes before the first CLSN1 box appears on the character) for the next attack is too long compared to the frame advantage, it won't register as a combo.

Do keep in mind though that links are not supposed to be easy to do compared to cancels, which are easy to implement. Just to illustrate the difference:

Cancel is when P1 hits P2 with one attack, then inputs the command for the next attack, which then cancels the rest of the animation of the first attack immediately into the second attack. This can easily be implemented in the cmd file using the stateno and movecontact triggers. Any time a normal cancels into another normal is called a chain.

Link is the hero of Hyrule destined to defeat the evil Ganon is when P1 hits P2 with an attack, waits for the animation to finish, then hits P2 with another attack before P2 can recover from the hittime of the first attack.

If you want to see a demonstration of a link versus a cancel, open any mugen character (lets just use Rotom as an example here).

In the cmd file, locate the changestate for the move Electroball and add the following triggers below any triggers you may have:

trigger2 = stateno = 200 && movecontact

In mugen, Perform the Plasma Lance attack and, as soon as the attack hits, perform the command for Electroball. If successful, you will notice the animation for Plasma Lance is interrupted and goes straight into Electroball. That's a cancel.

Reverse the edits and go into the hitdef for Electroball. Change the hittime to some ridiculously high value like 200.

In mugen, perform Electroball. After the attack hits, proceed to use Plasma Wrecker. Notice if you try to do a cancel like above it wont work. This is an example of a link (albeit an unrealistic one but its just to demonstrate the difference between a cancel and a link)

Considering you've already read my response on guild there's no sense for me to repost it here :p Although I do have to ask, do you plan to add any more specials? Shadow/Electro ball and will-o-wisp can easily be separated into their own special motions.

GCM's responses to the above feedback in bold

The following aren't in the same order as your feedback, because this device sucks at stuff.

-Answer to most of these: are you sure? I have played through Arcade mode, watched AI matches, etc. and most of what you describe doesn't occur. Both I and the AI can block Roto-spin, as well as Leaf Storm (even in the corner as you say), and Plasma Lance + walking forward doesn't lead to infinite - I've done it enough times to know this.

All these were tested on Kung Fu Man. I'll try them again later against someone else when I have the time, as well as provide screenshots and/or video of the plasma lance infinite.

-That's no dash, it's an attack! In relation to this, there's no anim 100/105 because certain characters put you into the running animation (or walking if such an animation does not exist, but with the same velocity). Seeing as FF/BB is dat rolling attack...(this isn't stupidity or poor planning, it's deliberate).

I wouldn't have a problem with this as an attack if it used a conventional special command, but as it is now it just feels off. Also anim 100 and 105 are required by the mugen engine, hence why it gave the warning about missing required anims, and thus the feedback I gave.

-Elec/Shad Ball and the hurricanes are Helpers, so projectile physics don't necessarily apply.

They're still projectiles, whether they're being created as a helper or with a projectile controller.

-D, DF, F a/b/c is too mainstream :P

There's a good reason why: because it works. You wouldn't put a fireball special with a Shoryuken motion because it doesn't work. And considering that all his specials use the same motion, theres no reason why it shouldn't be a QCF motion.

-He has 5 formes and Discharge - that's 6 buttons, but because my imagination sucks (and because I didn't necessarily want to include more attacks), his other attacks are a, b and c. That's not really a problem, is it?

Considering that his level 2s are, well level 2s, theres no reason why they can't use a slightly more complex command than QCFx2. For example, HCFx2, HCF,QCF, QCB,HCF, amongst other options. This way they can still be condensed to A B and C buttons if thats what your concern was. If a button is only used for a super motion's command then its best to not use that button at all. Your intention for Rotom was to be a 3 button character, theres no reason to add 3 more buttons just for supers, especially when you have super motions other than QCFx2 at your disposal. Speaking from experience, my older Touhou characters were the same way until I eventually scrapped using 3 additional buttons for supers.

-Technically, there are blue hitboxes in the Discharge animation for characters such as Zeeky to blow him up. If anyone knows of a way to make the attack destroy projectiles, I'd be very pleased :)

The way the attack is now, you have it classified as S,HA (standing hyper attack). Changing it to S,HP (standing Hyper Projectile) would cause it to destroy projectiles, but then you run into other issues since the hitbox itself is attached to Rotom itself.

-Originally, wash forme and its effect were all one animation. One day, I decided to make the water transparent, so I split the sprites up. The water is actually an explod, as the red hitbox is still on the wash forme animation.

Read the comment above regarding Discharge

- Read the previous posts of mine; Blizzard is a pain to balance, as characters are of all shapes and sizes - more damage to bigger characters, bugger all to smaller ones. In relation to this, Electro Ball accelerates, meaning it'll do more damage close-up (intentional). Again, its total damage is down to the width of the opponent.

Adding a damage dampener would alleviate part of the problem with Blizzard, as it'll cause each successive hit to deal less and less damage, balancing it out.

- Providing +n means power gain, I based mine around Fu Man's (which was probably not the best idea?)

You mean when I said Plasma Lance gave +13 and +7? I was actually talking about frame advantage, not powergains. In laymans terms, hitting an opponent with Plasma Lance would put them into a hitstate that, when Rotom is finished with the attack animation, they would still be in the hitstate for 13 more frames/ticks. Considering Plasma Lance has like 4 something frames of startup (can't recall the exact value as I'm not at my usual computer atm), this contributes to causing the infinite I mentioned earlier. The +7 refers to the same thing, but on block instead of hit. These values can be adjusted by altering the hittime values in the hitdefs (not pausetime, pausetime should almost always be equal for both P1 and P2, since inequal values can affect the frame advantage as well)

-Going back to the beta days of Rotom (I can give you the file if you wish), Rotom FAILED at comboing. He's not particularly combo-heavy now, but if you want me to include damage-dampening, I will.

See comment about Blizzard above.

-How was I supposed to know MUGEN's default cornerpush is buggy - is this really a problem?

If you're trying to go for a solid fighting game character, it sort of is. Reason why is because moves that push the opponent back don't push them back as much when in the corner. It can also lead to situations where the both P1 and the opponent are pushed back sooner than they are supposed to, which can prevent certain combos from occuring that would otherwise. A perfect example of this can be found in Vans's cornerpush tutorial which can be found here (specifically the part about Terry's Combination Blow)

Copypasta of my feedback from guild:

- Standing A gives +13 on hit and +7 on block. This is way too safe, even for a light attack basic.

- Standing A in corner while holding forward causes an infinite.

- Missing required anims 100 and 105

- Dashing deals damage.. why?

- Plasma Wrecker (Standing C) deals chip damage

- All of his crouching basics can be blocked high

- Rotospin cannot be blocked at all due to it having 0 startup frames. Even if it could be blocked (thanks to adding startup frames in the anime) it still gives him +3 on both hit and block.

- All aerial normals suffer from the same issue as Rotospin due to 0 frame startup.

- I don't know if its because of the wonky width values you used, but Air Hammer used as a jump-in whiffs at point blank range against Kung Fu Man

- Why do Shadowball and Electroball use QCB as its motion? Considering these are fireball type moves, a QCF motion would be more appropriate wouldn't it?

- Electroball, again, has 0 frame startup, and does 84 damage at point blank range, and only 28 at one screen away. Compare that to Shadowball's 26 frame startup that hits for 91. Imo, Shadowball becomes obsolete because of this.

- Shadowball has CLSN2 boxes on it to allow it to clash with other projectiles, yet Electroball does not?

- Overheat does 332 damage, way too much for a level 1 super.

- Why does he have invulnerability frames during discharge?

- Blizzard does 630 damage at point blank range, WAYY too powerful for a level 2.

- Leaf Storm is unblockable in the corner for some reason.

- Hydro Pump lacks the ability to collide with projectiles due to a lack of CLSN2 covering the beam. Intentional?

- Hydro Pump is classified as an attack rather than a projectile?

- Hurricane's projectiles lack CLSN2 to collide with othr projectiles

- As far as I can tell, the character has no damage dampening

- Why are X, Y, and Z used for the supers but not for anything else?

- Character uses Mugen's default cornerpush system, which is buggy