I got some opinions, how about the rest of you?

[JaaShooUhh]

So I wanted to start a somewhat controversial topic, not as a means to actually cause problems, but to see if anyone else is willing to honestly engage on these.

Over the years of being in the MUGEN community, I have noticed a lot of content being liked and disliked, supported and rejected. These vary from person to person, but at the same time, there does seem to be a general agreement on most of these, and I wanted to give my take, as well as read what everyone else thinks.

===SPRITESWAPPING===
Now this one seems to be an open and shut case. Taking someone else's work (especially without crediting them) and reusing it, is messed up. However, at the same time, I also think that it is SOMETIMES acceptable under certain conditions. These conditions being the following:

 

1. That the source of the swap is credited and that the swapper informs everyone that "their work" is in fact, a swap.

 

2. That when a swap is made, some additional work has to be done to ensure that hitboxes and moves make sense. For example, let's say they swap a boxing character with Balrog. For the most part, that makes sense, and it shouldn't be as big of a deal as some people make it out to be.

 

3. That the character has extra effort put into making the swap not as obvious. Things like removing certain moves, changing how these moves are performed, changing a characters palettes, etc.

 

Essentially, give the ILLUSION of being NEW all the while retaining the core component.

===AI GENERATION===
Now for me personally, while I do like using AI generation software, I do think that in MUGEN, this should be HEAVILY limited to just filling in the blanks where obtainable work is either not easily obtainable or too costly / time consuming to do. Additionally, the AI generation should ONLY be used for adding in more sprites or adding in a custom portrait or textures or something.

 

NEVER USED FOR CODING.

 

After all, I have seen my fair share of KOF edits with AI generated sprites, and honestly, they're not terrible, but could use a tad bit of polish here and there. Its definitely not something I think people should shun, especially since getting someone to make you sprites costs and arm and a leg these days, and it does seem like AI is able to do some solid frankenspriting.

===CHEAPIES===
As much as I am deeply entrenched in the cheap community, it has turned into an absolute slopfest. Cheap characters should be made with the goal to DO SOMETHING NEW, not do more of the same with a different coat of paint. In other words, characters that end up just becoming fullscreen nukes or animated wallpapers (basically) are obnoxious and need to stop being made. Some of these authors seem to have the skill and the talent to make things that are UNIQUE and AMAZING, but then blow it all away on making the 83747382837th Donald edit.

 

I think one of the reasons why the cheapie community has become hated, is the same reason why the JUS community and the KOF community is becoming hated... too much of the same crap over and over again.

===JUS===
I mean, what is there to say that hasn't already been said. A good majority of the MUGEN community hates the JUS community for a reason, and it is the same reason why the cheapie community and the KOF community are also thoroughly hated... lackluster, over-the-top, obnoxious and flashy, system heavy, resource heavy, oversized characters. When all of your characters basically do the exact same crap, with no difference besides what effect is being used, that is when you know you've run out of talent.

===KOF===
Look, I will admit, I am a KOF fanboy... but even I can look at the community and go "come on guys, pull your act together". Too many authors create these really overpowered and absurdly flashy characters for no reason, rather than try something new. Lately, the only people that have been doing something new is the CKOFM team and their associates.

 

 

So yeah, what about the rest of you... thoughts?

[･yoonybin･]

I know the reply to this topic is hella late, but I couldn't help but respond as soon as I found this while looking up how to run spacial rift efficiently for a vid and I find it interesting that no one has replied considering I think there are cheapie lovers and other people a like here as well.

 

But yee I agree with a lot of what you said, this was a pretty fair and honest take.

 

Spriteswapping can b straight-up lazy swaps with no credit or effort are trash. But if someone does a really well-made spriteswap where you genuinely can’t even tell it’s a swap, and they still give proper credit, I think that’s respectable. At that point it’s more like high-level editing than just stealing assets.

 

Now on..

AI Generation I’m 50/50 on this one. I think AI is useful for filling in sprites, portraits, or fixing small things when making stuff from scratch is too expensive or time-consuming. But it should never be used for the actual coding. I made a video (this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ycBevHELTE) that explained it pretty well. AI can help, but you still need to put in your own work and polish.

 

Cheapies Hard agree. The cheapie side has a big creativity drought right now. It feels like every other release is just another Donald edit with more screen nukes. That’s why I’m working on my own collection called “Everything vs. Ronald McDonald” - this is a collection project that speaks on the creativity problem in mugen today and as soon as I can get the intro for this done, I can finally start working on it.

 

Now...

JUS I’m pretty mixed on this. I understand why a lot of people hate it (flashy, samey, system-heavy, etc.), but at the same time, it’s bringing a ton of new people into MUGEN and Ikemen right now alongside cheapies too. So I can see both sides.

 

Also, as someone who also loves KOF, I feel you. A lot of recent characters are just over-the-top flashy with no real soul. props to the CKOFM team for still trying to do something different. which is why believe it or not, when I did the recreation gauntlet I didn't exclude KOF edits for this exact reason. I did exclude touhou, donald, and JUS but kof had something to it that was worth including. so yee

 

Overall, I think the community would be healthier if more people focused on bringing something new or at least well-executed instead of recycling the same templates but I'm afraid with how life is, people give up too easily, or don't want to put too much effort or, really if i am being honest here accepted that they aren't really any different from these companies now, which is being ok with being uncreative and producing the same stuf. other than that good thread man. defintely, recommend bringing up convos like this on because you'll have more of a response there than here. ig ppl don't do much discussions on here from what ik so far.