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Rotom Updated - 23/1/13


PlasmoidThunder

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[ le idle animation ]

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[ le notes ]

Fully completed methinks (aside from custom intro poses against certain characters I may or not make in the future). AI has been ironed out (again), fan forme has been implemented, new palette, and a bunch of other stuff that's all mentioned in Rotom's Changelog.txt file.

 

EDIT: Rotom has been updated once again, balancing it out and adding a few additional features (cheers RicePidgeon/Pidove and Makurayami!).

EDIT2: Fixed issue with Disharge's damage rate being pathetic, as well as some silly effect thing with Mow Forme (which I'd been trying to do for ages, mind you).

[ le video ]

[ le download ]

http://garchompmatt.webs.com/chars.htm

Cheers for waiting so long ;)

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Dat Garchomp...we'll see ;)

I know its Garchomp, why else would you add it to your sig? I'll try Rotom out it was already awesome.

*Edit* Now I know its Garchomp, I saw the Mini portrait in the last few seconds of the video. Good luck on Garchomp we need one, Cyperlizards was well, below decent... Now to wait for a Haxorus and Flygon.

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Haxorus?! Flygon?! Hold off the dragon types there! Jetgoshi hasn't even released his Haxorus yet, and I don't plan on making one either :P It's obvious that I'll eventually make a Garchomp character, but I'm such a tease :3 Nah, effects and stuff ain't my style. If I ever remade Rotom for some fighting game project or something, then his plasma would be semi-transparent. Also, GUISE SRSLY XD

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Copypasta of my feedback from guild:

- Standing A gives +13 on hit and +7 on block. This is way too safe, even for a light attack basic.

- Standing A in corner while holding forward causes an infinite.

- Missing required anims 100 and 105

- Dashing deals damage.. why?

- Plasma Wrecker (Standing C) deals chip damage

- All of his crouching basics can be blocked high

- Rotospin cannot be blocked at all due to it having 0 startup frames. Even if it could be blocked (thanks to adding startup frames in the anime) it still gives him +3 on both hit and block.

- All aerial normals suffer from the same issue as Rotospin due to 0 frame startup.

- I don't know if its because of the wonky width values you used, but Air Hammer used as a jump-in whiffs at point blank range against Kung Fu Man

- Why do Shadowball and Electroball use QCB as its motion? Considering these are fireball type moves, a QCF motion would be more appropriate wouldn't it?

- Electroball, again, has 0 frame startup, and does 84 damage at point blank range, and only 28 at one screen away. Compare that to Shadowball's 26 frame startup that hits for 91. Imo, Shadowball becomes obsolete because of this.

- Shadowball has CLSN2 boxes on it to allow it to clash with other projectiles, yet Electroball does not?

- Overheat does 332 damage, way too much for a level 1 super.

- Why does he have invulnerability frames during discharge?

- Blizzard does 630 damage at point blank range, WAYY too powerful for a level 2.

- Leaf Storm is unblockable in the corner for some reason.

- Hydro Pump lacks the ability to collide with projectiles due to a lack of CLSN2 covering the beam. Intentional?

- Hydro Pump is classified as an attack rather than a projectile?

- Hurricane's projectiles lack CLSN2 to collide with othr projectiles

- As far as I can tell, the character has no damage dampening

- Why are X, Y, and Z used for the supers but not for anything else?

- Character uses Mugen's default cornerpush system, which is buggy

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GCM's responses to the above feedback in bold

The following aren't in the same order as your feedback, because this device sucks at stuff.

-Answer to most of these: are you sure? I have played through Arcade mode, watched AI matches, etc. and most of what you describe doesn't occur. Both I and the AI can block Roto-spin, as well as Leaf Storm (even in the corner as you say), and Plasma Lance + walking forward doesn't lead to infinite - I've done it enough times to know this.

All these were tested on Kung Fu Man. I'll try them again later against someone else when I have the time, as well as provide screenshots and/or video of the plasma lance infinite.

-That's no dash, it's an attack! In relation to this, there's no anim 100/105 because certain characters put you into the running animation (or walking if such an animation does not exist, but with the same velocity). Seeing as FF/BB is dat rolling attack...(this isn't stupidity or poor planning, it's deliberate).

I wouldn't have a problem with this as an attack if it used a conventional special command, but as it is now it just feels off. Also anim 100 and 105 are required by the mugen engine, hence why it gave the warning about missing required anims, and thus the feedback I gave.

-Elec/Shad Ball and the hurricanes are Helpers, so projectile physics don't necessarily apply.

They're still projectiles, whether they're being created as a helper or with a projectile controller.

-D, DF, F a/b/c is too mainstream :P

There's a good reason why: because it works. You wouldn't put a fireball special with a Shoryuken motion because it doesn't work. And considering that all his specials use the same motion, theres no reason why it shouldn't be a QCF motion.

-He has 5 formes and Discharge - that's 6 buttons, but because my imagination sucks (and because I didn't necessarily want to include more attacks), his other attacks are a, b and c. That's not really a problem, is it?

Considering that his level 2s are, well level 2s, theres no reason why they can't use a slightly more complex command than QCFx2. For example, HCFx2, HCF,QCF, QCB,HCF, amongst other options. This way they can still be condensed to A B and C buttons if thats what your concern was. If a button is only used for a super motion's command then its best to not use that button at all. Your intention for Rotom was to be a 3 button character, theres no reason to add 3 more buttons just for supers, especially when you have super motions other than QCFx2 at your disposal. Speaking from experience, my older Touhou characters were the same way until I eventually scrapped using 3 additional buttons for supers.

-Technically, there are blue hitboxes in the Discharge animation for characters such as Zeeky to blow him up. If anyone knows of a way to make the attack destroy projectiles, I'd be very pleased :)

The way the attack is now, you have it classified as S,HA (standing hyper attack). Changing it to S,HP (standing Hyper Projectile) would cause it to destroy projectiles, but then you run into other issues since the hitbox itself is attached to Rotom itself.

-Originally, wash forme and its effect were all one animation. One day, I decided to make the water transparent, so I split the sprites up. The water is actually an explod, as the red hitbox is still on the wash forme animation.

Read the comment above regarding Discharge

- Read the previous posts of mine; Blizzard is a pain to balance, as characters are of all shapes and sizes - more damage to bigger characters, bugger all to smaller ones. In relation to this, Electro Ball accelerates, meaning it'll do more damage close-up (intentional). Again, its total damage is down to the width of the opponent.

Adding a damage dampener would alleviate part of the problem with Blizzard, as it'll cause each successive hit to deal less and less damage, balancing it out.

- Providing +n means power gain, I based mine around Fu Man's (which was probably not the best idea?)

You mean when I said Plasma Lance gave +13 and +7? I was actually talking about frame advantage, not powergains. In laymans terms, hitting an opponent with Plasma Lance would put them into a hitstate that, when Rotom is finished with the attack animation, they would still be in the hitstate for 13 more frames/ticks. Considering Plasma Lance has like 4 something frames of startup (can't recall the exact value as I'm not at my usual computer atm), this contributes to causing the infinite I mentioned earlier. The +7 refers to the same thing, but on block instead of hit. These values can be adjusted by altering the hittime values in the hitdefs (not pausetime, pausetime should almost always be equal for both P1 and P2, since inequal values can affect the frame advantage as well)

-Going back to the beta days of Rotom (I can give you the file if you wish), Rotom FAILED at comboing. He's not particularly combo-heavy now, but if you want me to include damage-dampening, I will.

See comment about Blizzard above.

-How was I supposed to know MUGEN's default cornerpush is buggy - is this really a problem?

If you're trying to go for a solid fighting game character, it sort of is. Reason why is because moves that push the opponent back don't push them back as much when in the corner. It can also lead to situations where the both P1 and the opponent are pushed back sooner than they are supposed to, which can prevent certain combos from occuring that would otherwise. A perfect example of this can be found in Vans's cornerpush tutorial which can be found here (specifically the part about Terry's Combination Blow)

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Copypasta from that other forum:

==Done==

-Added "P" into Discharge's hitflag and added blue CLSNs into Discharge's animation.

-Added blue CLSNs into Shadow/Electro Ball's animations (minus Shadow Ball's charge-up anims, because they're just explods).

==Still to do==

-Change Shadow Ball and Electro Ball back into projectiles - it makes life easier, plus MUGEN 1.1 will have projectile ownpal.

-Cornerpush...unless I overlooked something, that tutorial you (RicePigeon) linked to didn't explain how to fix it.

-Damage dampening.

-Add "placeholder" 100/105 anims that have the exact same anim as the walking ones.

-Sort out the infinite priority shizz with certain attacks.

-Probably some other stuff.

==Notes==

-I do not wish for Hydro Pump to remove projectiles.

-Pausetime is 0 (P1) for ALL of Rotom's attacks, because if there is a pausetime, Phazed palette shows a shadow for some dumb reason.

-I know why Leaf Storm does that! It's to do with the movetype being I, not A - silly me :P

-Rotom's ground.hittime for the Plasma Lance is 11, not 13...unless I'm missing something here...?

-Oh...I get the infinites with the Plasma Lance now; you meant across the screen, yet I was thinking in a corner :U

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Although I do have to ask, do you plan to add any more specials?

No...?

One question though. By setting the Plasma Lance so that the attack advantage is 0 when not followed up by anything, it won't register a combo when I use the Plasma Hammer as soon as the Lance makes contact :/

EDIT: It works with the Plasma Wrecker though.

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One question though. By setting the Plasma Lance so that the attack advantage is 0 when not followed up by anything, it won't register a combo when I use the Plasma Hammer as soon as the Lance makes contact :/

EDIT: It works with the Plasma Wrecker though.

You don't have to set all the attack advantages to 0, thats not what I was saying. Having positive frame advantage is fine, in fact all light attacks have some kind of frame advantage. In fact, it's because of positive frame advantage that certain combos are possible, specifically links. But for a light attack, 13 was too much.

Anyways, to answer your question I don't recall seeing the ability to cancel/chain Plasma Lance into Plasma Hammer or Wrecker, I'd have to check the cmd file again. If that was intentional, then it has to do with linking the attack rather than cancelling/chaining the attack, which is where the frame advantage comes into play. When this happens, if the startup time (that is, the time it takes before the first CLSN1 box appears on the character) for the next attack is too long compared to the frame advantage, it won't register as a combo.

Do keep in mind though that links are not supposed to be easy to do compared to cancels, which are easy to implement. Just to illustrate the difference:

Cancel is when P1 hits P2 with one attack, then inputs the command for the next attack, which then cancels the rest of the animation of the first attack immediately into the second attack. This can easily be implemented in the cmd file using the stateno and movecontact triggers. Any time a normal cancels into another normal is called a chain.

Link is the hero of Hyrule destined to defeat the evil Ganon is when P1 hits P2 with an attack, waits for the animation to finish, then hits P2 with another attack before P2 can recover from the hittime of the first attack.

If you want to see a demonstration of a link versus a cancel, open any mugen character (lets just use Rotom as an example here).

In the cmd file, locate the changestate for the move Electroball and add the following triggers below any triggers you may have:

trigger2 = stateno = 200 && movecontact

In mugen, Perform the Plasma Lance attack and, as soon as the attack hits, perform the command for Electroball. If successful, you will notice the animation for Plasma Lance is interrupted and goes straight into Electroball. That's a cancel.

Reverse the edits and go into the hitdef for Electroball. Change the hittime to some ridiculously high value like 200.

In mugen, perform Electroball. After the attack hits, proceed to use Plasma Wrecker. Notice if you try to do a cancel like above it wont work. This is an example of a link (albeit an unrealistic one but its just to demonstrate the difference between a cancel and a link)

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Well that would mean I've got cancels then: L-M-H, L-H, M-L, but not H-L/H-M. Still produces combos though ;) Aren't there some cancels that cancel out the start-up time of the next attack? That would resolve the Plasma Lance issue :) As for the video...I'll watch it when I'm on a device that has FP.

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Well that would mean I've got cancels then: L-M-H, L-H, M-L, but not H-L/H-M. Still produces combos though ;)

Generally speaking, chains go from L-M-H in that order. Meaning L-M and L-H should both be possible (and M-H if you're implementing magic series), but not the reverse. Of course there are exceptions (Wolverine and a few chars in SF4 can do reverse, but its generally M-L)

Aren't there some cancels that cancel out the start-up time of the next attack? That would resolve the Plasma Lance issue :)

While possible in mugen, cancels generally cancel out the recovery time of the 1st attack, not the startup of the 2nd.

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You haven't been online this whole time just waiting for me to respond, have you? :=D: Plasma Lance no longer infinites. I believe I've got all that combo stuff worked out with the standing basics, but on an unrelated note, I noticed Rotom's friction values are rather low (and that means high) in comparison to all the other characters' - .56 and .52, rather than .85 and .82 - most likely dating back to the early days of when I was trying to get rid of the dust clouds when Rotom lands (to no avail, of course). I changed them to .85 and .82 and he skids EVERYWHERE, including "start jump forward" (moves forward on the ground and then jumps forward), and when going from walking forward to using Plasma Hammer, he skids during the first few frames! Dunno what's causing this :/

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