Ricepigeon

Potentially removing Mugen Archive from our site blacklist?

Keep Mugen Archive blacklisted?  

54 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

57 posts in this topic

Alright, I'm sure many of you are familiar with Archive in recent years and this is something that I have brought up in private with the rest of the staff, but I would like some public feedback regarding a possible change in our policy regarding MFFA links. This thread isn't meant to guarantee a certain outcome, but we feel some public feedback may help influence our final decision.

 

For those of you who are unaware, back in June of 2016, we made the decision to blacklist any and all download links from Mugen Archive in light of their decision to use Adfly as their primary source of revenue. You can read about our reasoning for this decision here.

 

In recent months, however, it would seem that Mugen Archive has turned to another source of ad revenue and have discontinued their use of Adfly/Shortest, thus, no longer posing the security threat that we originally blacklisted them for. Because the sole basis of our decision no longer applies, I feel that it's appropriate to finally lift this ban that has been in effect for the past two years.

 

Others that I have spoken to did have some concerns that could potentially be used against this decision. Notably, the biggest concern deals with Archive's "Community Weekend" events, which temporarily throttle and/or disable downloads for non-registered users, making them unreliable hosting. While this is true, the same could easily be said of other sites like sendspace, which are not currently blacklisted. Unlike sites such as 4shared, which require registration, the same does not apply to Archive, despite the aforementioned limitations. While this may not affect release threads too much, this could be a concern for those hoping to use archive links in collection threads.

 

I just want to reiterate that the conduct of certain MA members, unless they are actively compromising the security of MFFA or its members, shouldn't play a factor in this decision; this deals primarily with the linking to hosted downloads, if a member of MA is caught breaking the rules of MFFA's forums or discord chat, they will be handled with as we would any other user, independently of any other Mugen community they may be associated with.

 

That being said, I would like to know what everyone's thoughts on this idea are.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely the fuck not. Not unless Archive gets new management to run their ship. Archives higher-ups do nothing but spew venom at everyone that remotely even disagrees with them even going as far as banning anyone that does so. I'm pretty sure they were the ones that told their members to constantly harass the other discords.

 

As long as individuals like Dizzy and Sol mantain a high rank position, Archive is better off remaining blacklisted as a principle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. It would make life hella easier. Though alt links should still be a option. Although I do think I should personally send a message to the feedback form about community weekends.  Mainly about making it more clear what it is and changing the banner to make it more obvious it is a community weekend. And as of late I've been including alternate links when possible. However to reply on Dark's comment, well Sol sure is something. With his outdated memes and his rather interesting pages on the wiki.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Huh, I didn't know a character from Guilty Gear was a admin of that one site I shall not mention....but to answer that question....yes, for the love of fuck...yes, keep it blacklisted, like what Flare said, it would make life hella easier, it's mostly the reason why I rehost characters on that said site on mediafire....that way, it gets easier finding characters...I don't really know why simply ignoring the site is out of the question, but I digress

 

Although, I can give links to the characters I rehosted if you guys want that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a terrible distrust with MA they could add a shortcurt again in any moment, also I am really agree about the weekend event, honestly it could be an annoyance for the people who wants to download the hosted stuffs.

So yes, I want MA is still on the blacklist for now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've already said my part on Discord and it generally boils down to them very easily reinstating the ad referral at any given time, as they have done before. While not really a valid reason for keeping them blacklisted, the restrictions in place for unregistered and low-ranked users mean a lot of content is unobtainable, so its usage in collections would become problematic.

 

In addition, while there's no real way of confirming whether this is Sol, Dizzy, or any other higher-up speaking on behalf of MA (as opposed to the usual MA shills who grace various MUGEN servers from time to time, assumptions of who they are aside), the following messages were posted earlier in the MFFA server:

Ngb60z8.png

kxfk8YF.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fourthing.

 

On 6/8/2018 at 3:33 PM, Darkflare said:

Absolutely the fuck not. Not unless Archive gets new management to run their ship. Archives higher-ups do nothing but spew venom at everyone that remotely even disagrees with them even going as far as banning anyone that does so. I'm pretty sure they were the ones that told their members to constantly harass the other discords.

 

As long as individuals like Dizzy and Sol mantain a high rank position, Archive is better off remaining blacklisted as a principle.

 

3 hours ago, PlasmoidThunder said:

I've already said my part on Discord and it generally boils down to them very easily reinstating the ad referral at any given time, as they have done before. While not really a valid reason for keeping them blacklisted, the restrictions in place for unregistered and low-ranked users mean a lot of content is unobtainable, so its usage in collections would become problematic.

 

In addition, while there's no real way of confirming whether this is Sol, Dizzy, or any other higher-up speaking on behalf of MA (as opposed to the usual MA shills who grace various MUGEN servers from time to time, assumptions of who they are aside), the following messages were posted earlier in the MFFA server:

Ngb60z8.png

kxfk8YF.png

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Mugen Archive has declared that they are no longer concerned with the rest of the mugen community (they don't care about the blacklist anymore) and instead are going to focus on their community instead and work on improving the website/forum for their own members. I know this firsthand as I'm usually over there actively participating there.

 

Personally (concerning the blacklist) I think the big issue was that losing the shared traffic from MFG to MA was going to affect the Archive Community negatively; however, the forum/website is growing and has strong & steady activity despite the blacklist policy from MFG and any others. It was initially perceived that it would have a big impact given that MFG has great influence over other mugen communities such as mugenfreeforall (included in support of the blacklist).

 

MugenMultiverse also had a similar panic when their hosting was booted out of guild after the admins had a personal squabble.  

 

However,

 

I think Mugen Archive is pretty much moving on now seeing that there was no threat after all. The Archive's content collecting service is valuable enough to keep it relevant in the mugen community alone. The visiting/activity and downloads count pretty much confirms this assessment. People will visit it regardless of linking from other websites/forums just because of the content collection on dedicated servers and the community desire for that content on these servers. 

 

Whatever mugenfreeforall wants to do in regards to Mugen Archive links has to consider the positives and the negatives.

 

+ The positives are that additional links to a download would be greatly appreciated by its members in case of expired links, just having more options to download from wherever, would be very appreciated by their community. No one wants expired/dead links...

 

- The negative that I can see is that just by having links to Mugen Archive here on mugen free for all,, Mugenfreeforall may very well lose shared traffic from Mugen fighters Guild and may themselves be included in mugen fighters guild's blacklist! Basically being a third party "gateway" may be enough to kick freeforall out of (MFG's) their loop. Given that mffa supported the blacklist may indicate that they rely on mfg's linking privileges and shared traffic exposure; that or they really are concerned about ads and possible viruses. 

 

 

To be personally honest (please don't be offended) as a member with mugen free for all, I just visit here to check on my old threads periodically but I'm considering duplicating them to mugen archive, NO offense! The truth is I hardly download here because archive pretty much has everything guild and freeforall have but in one location with links that don't expire! Though I am still fond of the freeforall community and I think it can continue strong and the mugen community in general would benefit from more mugen communities in general as there are hardly anymore out here these days except for the same ones that seem to get smaller and smaller. 

 

So I recommend one of 2 things to keep this place hip and happening. 

 

1, get creator activity like MFG or mugenmultiverse. Members such as myself like new, and want more. If you can get member activity up by doing more wips and releasing new stuff, it can benefit traffic here greatly like it does mfg or mugenmultiverse. 

 

or

 

2, adopt a similar system to mugen archive and host content directly to mffa and build a real warehouse/database. I would certainly and personally appreciate this as a member and would visit here to download as well, especially if I can't find the content I'm looking for in archive, it could be found here! Also if a server should fail elsewhere then you would be an alternative source. Members hates website/forum maintenance, and they will go other places to get their mugen fix. 

 

The issue though is putting more money to get that hosting is a gamble, if no one visits even after the direct hosting service is instated then you basically blew a lot of money on little to no pay back at all and then you're just out. Also if you do decide to go this route, you will have to seriously consider putting in ads to help with the additional cost or get donations of some sort to help support this.

 

 

Anyway, my best wishes to mffa and I hope whatever you choose goes well for this place. Good luck ;)

Jim-Carrey-Thumbs-Up.gif

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While the ADS switch (which personaly i can easy avoid), gething any money by using other peoples creations still is NOT okey (IMO)

Understand when comes to OLD i mean really OLD creations that in fact will get impossible to obtain (like from Retired creators, specialy Japanese and Chinese ones)

but suddenly upload NEW freshly released creations after minutes of being release in hopes of gething even a single $1 when they are avalible to download with no real issue?

BEING FAIR they could easily do what any other mugen website does and give the optional "Source Release Website/Topic" to atleast leave a nice comment, feeback, ask for updates, ECT to the creator but not even that??? Yeah no, keep it Blacklisted.

 

This is personaly my only issue with the site, other than that? I don´t mind the other things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Darkflare said:

Wow, I didn't expect Ax to be such an MA shill but at the same time, I'm not surprised.

NUUpGMZ.gif

 

Sorry, what?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Ex✭Cᴀʜᴍ said:

While the ADS switch (which personaly i can easy avoid), gething any money by using other peoples creations still is NOT okey (IMO)

Understand when comes to OLD i mean really OLD creations that in fact will get impossible to obtain (like from Retired creators, specialy Japanese and Chinese ones)

but suddenly upload NEW freshly released creations after minutes of being release in hopes of gething even a single $1 when they are avalible to download with no real issue?

BEING FAIR they could easily do what any other mugen website does and give the optional "Source Release Website/Topic" to atleast leave a nice comment, feeback, ask for updates, ECT to the creator but not even that??? Yeah no, keep it Blacklisted.

 

While I can't speak for MFG, I do know that the ethical concerns surrounding the money was a secondary reason why they blacklisted Archive, in addition to the use of adfly. The only justification for MFFA's blacklist was the adfly usage, which no longer applies. Unless the other staff agree to use their financial practices as justification for continuing to blacklist Archive, the assumption should be made that the basis of the blacklist should solely be their adfly usage or lack thereof.

 

On 6/8/2018 at 3:33 PM, Darkflare said:

Absolutely the fuck not. Not unless Archive gets new management to run their ship. Archives higher-ups do nothing but spew venom at everyone that remotely even disagrees with them even going as far as banning anyone that does so. I'm pretty sure they were the ones that told their members to constantly harass the other discords.

 

As long as individuals like Dizzy and Sol mantain a high rank position, Archive is better off remaining blacklisted as a principle.

 

My problem with this argument, which I've already addressed in the first post, is that this could be used to justify blacklisting other sites which aren't currently blacklisted. A good example that comes to mind would be MMV 5-6 years ago, when they were actively trying to persuade their users to boycott and undermine MFG. Then again, that was an issue between MFG and MMV which had nothing to do with us, but to the best of my knowledge MMV has never been blacklisted from here because of that. Do we condone what MA's staff do? I would assume not. But if we went the route you're suggesting, we would have to retroactively apply that same logic to other sites.

 

On 6/8/2018 at 6:30 PM, Flare-Gamer-64 said:

Yes. It would make life hella easier. Though alt links should still be a option. Although I do think I should personally send a message to the feedback form about community weekends.  Mainly about making it more clear what it is and changing the banner to make it more obvious it is a community weekend. And as of late I've been including alternate links when possible.

 

The use of alternate links could still be encouraged on the basis of reliability (again, regarding the aforementioned community weekend events that temporarily make downloads unavailable to non-registered users). Of course, this would be something that would be up to the discretion of the ones responsible for creating the collection threads, rather than something that staff would actively police as we are currently doing.

 

On 6/9/2018 at 2:10 PM, PlasmoidThunder said:

I've already said my part on Discord and it generally boils down to them very easily reinstating the ad referral at any given time, as they have done before.

 

Had they been reinstating the ad referrals on a more frequent basis then I don't think we'd even be having this discussion in the first place. Afaik, it's only happened once so far and their current policy has been in place for some time that I think we can confidently consider the idea of de-blacklisting them without fear of such a decision biting us in the rear too soon. If they decide to reinstate adfly 2 years from now then that's a different story and we'll handle it then.

 

On 6/10/2018 at 10:06 AM, AxSeeker said:

 

Mugen Archive has declared that they are no longer concerned with the rest of the mugen community (they don't care about the blacklist anymore) and instead are going to focus on their community instead and work on improving the website/forum for their own members. I know this firsthand as I'm usually over there actively participating there.

 

Personally (concerning the blacklist) I think the big issue was that losing the shared traffic from MFG to MA was going to affect the Archive Community negatively; however, the forum/website is growing and has strong & steady activity despite the blacklist policy from MFG and any others. It was initially perceived that it would have a big impact given that MFG has great influence over other mugen communities such as mugenfreeforall (included in support of the blacklist).

 

MugenMultiverse also had a similar panic when their hosting was booted out of guild after the admins had a personal squabble.  

 

However,

 

I think Mugen Archive is pretty much moving on now seeing that there was no threat after all. The Archive's content collecting service is valuable enough to keep it relevant in the mugen community alone. The visiting/activity and downloads count pretty much confirms this assessment. People will visit it regardless of linking from other websites/forums just because of the content collection on dedicated servers and the community desire for that content on these servers. 

 

Whatever mugenfreeforall wants to do in regards to Mugen Archive links has to consider the positives and the negatives.

 

+ The positives are that additional links to a download would be greatly appreciated by its members in case of expired links, just having more options to download from wherever, would be very appreciated by their community. No one wants expired/dead links...

 

- The negative that I can see is that just by having links to Mugen Archive here on mugen free for all,, Mugenfreeforall may very well lose shared traffic from Mugen fighters Guild and may themselves be included in mugen fighters guild's blacklist! Basically being a third party "gateway" may be enough to kick freeforall out of (MFG's) their loop. Given that mffa supported the blacklist may indicate that they rely on mfg's linking privileges and shared traffic exposure; that or they really are concerned about ads and possible viruses. 

 

 

To be personally honest (please don't be offended) as a member with mugen free for all, I just visit here to check on my old threads periodically but I'm considering duplicating them to mugen archive, NO offense! The truth is I hardly download here because archive pretty much has everything guild and freeforall have but in one location with links that don't expire! Though I am still fond of the freeforall community and I think it can continue strong and the mugen community in general would benefit from more mugen communities in general as there are hardly anymore out here these days except for the same ones that seem to get smaller and smaller. 

 

So I recommend one of 2 things to keep this place hip and happening. 

 

1, get creator activity like MFG or mugenmultiverse. Members such as myself like new, and want more. If you can get member activity up by doing more wips and releasing new stuff, it can benefit traffic here greatly like it does mfg or mugenmultiverse. 

 

or

 

2, adopt a similar system to mugen archive and host content directly to mffa and build a real warehouse/database. I would certainly and personally appreciate this as a member and would visit here to download as well, especially if I can't find the content I'm looking for in archive, it could be found here! Also if a server should fail elsewhere then you would be an alternative source. Members hates website/forum maintenance, and they will go other places to get their mugen fix. 

 

The issue though is putting more money to get that hosting is a gamble, if no one visits even after the direct hosting service is instated then you basically blew a lot of money on little to no pay back at all and then you're just out. Also if you do decide to go this route, you will have to seriously consider putting in ads to help with the additional cost or get donations of some sort to help support this.

 

 

Anyway, my best wishes to mffa and I hope whatever you choose goes well for this place. Good luck ;)

 

 

This isn't really about traffic, and I don't think it ever was. MFG's basis for the blacklist was both the adfly usage and monetization, while ours was based solely on the adfly usage. While it is true that there is an overlap between members of MFFA that are also members of MFG, the same can easily be said of any other mugen community that this really shouldn't be a factor in decision making. A few other places such as Mugen Database have also blacklisted Archive on the basis of their ad referrals. If our policies coincide with MFG's, then that would just be pure coincidence, not evidence of collusion.

 

Additionally, there's an inherent risk involved with direct hosting files on our server, including legal problems which should be self-explanatory, so I won't list those here. For starters, we just recently had bandwidth issues over the past few months, and that's without direct hosting content. The other big factor is that creations, especially recent ones, tend to get updated rather frequently and it would be more convenient to simply link to the author's web page/onedrive so that we can guarantee those visiting our collections can find the most up-to-date version of a creation. The only real instances where we use third-party hosting like mediafire in our collection threads is when the author's site is offline and no longer available and the author is currently inactive, or if the author's site/download links utilize a blacklisted url such as mugenarchive or 4shared.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ricepigeon said:

My problem with this argument, which I've already addressed in the first post, is that this could be used to justify blacklisting other sites which aren't currently blacklisted. A good example that comes to mind would be MMV 5-6 years ago, when they were actively trying to persuade their users to boycott and undermine MFG. Then again, that was an issue between MFG and MMV which had nothing to do with us, but to the best of my knowledge MMV has never been blacklisted from here because of that. Do we condone what MA's staff do? I would assume not. But if we went the route you're suggesting, we would have to retroactively apply that same logic to other sites.

Ok, do you see MMV pulling this shit now? Do you see any other place actively attacking other places?

 

Honestly, I'm fine blacklisting for this reason since a toxic community should be completely disregarded and not be associated with at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course we're not, but if we were going to blacklist sites for that reason then MMV would have been blacklisted ages ago, and we should remain consistent in our policy. I honestly don't think it's fair to associate the actions of a site's staff with the site itself unless, as I previously stated, they are actively trying to undermine the security of MFFA or it's users through the use of malwares, viruses, etc. So far the only thing Mugen Archive has done (if they're even directly associated at all) are the white knights popping in and proselytizing their mugen community of choice every now and then, which is ultimately harmless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a personal bias with the site as I was banned there for little to no reason whatsoever but I'll try to be civil about this as much as I can. But with how M.U.G.E.N Archive behaves with the community with people like Dizzy and Sol being admins there I can only stick with saying to keep them blacklisted.

 

 

The site has goods such as hosting a bunch of characters that would be considered lost in time with relative ease and I think there's some neat people there but the flaws overshadow these with them focusing on building a community rather than fixing what should be done and removing limits. I didn't like them for their beliefs and how certain admins there lie and spew hatred and probably even further after said ban when they were having a Community Weekend which is a terrible idea the way they handle their site.

 

Till they get themselves together and at least try to see that we're not trying to start wars and at least communicate with us without drawing to conclusions so soon, they should remain blacklisted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/10/2018 at 2:10 AM, PlasmoidThunder said:

 

Ngb60z8.png

kxfk8YF.png

 

 

why I'm not surprised to see this kind of comment

 

this will solidify my statement in the chat that keeps them on the blacklist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/20/2018 at 7:15 AM, Hyoudou Issei said:

 

why I'm not surprised to see this kind of comment

 

this will solidify my statement in the chat that keeps them on the blacklist

I don't even understand what's with them and this "war" they're spewin' about.

 

What war? There's no war whatsoever far as I know. I'm not surprised but it's starting to get on my nerves... I really need to relax.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The "war", from what I gather, seems to be primarily a propaganda tool used by some affiliated users to harass & intimidate authors and other communities while simultaneously stirring up interest in MA. It originally started as retaliation to MFG taking disciplinary action on some of their users for essentially spamming the forum with advertisements for MA, it just evolved from there to include any author or mugen community who speak negatively about them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard the reason why they do the community weekends thing is to get people to be more active in the forum instead of just downloading everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Ricepigeon said:

The "war", from what I gather, seems to be primarily a propaganda tool used by some affiliated users to harass & intimidate authors and other communities while simultaneously stirring up interest in MA. It originally started as retaliation to MFG taking disciplinary action on some of their users for essentially spamming the forum with advertisements for MA, it just evolved from there to include any author or mugen community who speak negatively about them.

 

LMAO

I was about about to post a big rant, but that would only help this site so fuck it.

I voted "keep it blacklisted" because nothing is going to save MFFA at this point, everyone can tell that much.

If @RobotMonkeyHædgave you the boot long ago he could have saved this site but now is too late.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jirobou said:

 

LMAO

I was about about to post a big rant, but that would only help this site so fuck it.

I voted "keep it blacklisted" because nothing is going to save MFFA at this point, everyone can tell that much.

If @RobotMonkeyHædgave you the boot long ago he could have saved this site but now is too late.

 

 

I hope you know you're not really helping your case here. Wouldn't want you to get the boot again now would we?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Him getting the boot again is inevitable. Coming back from a ban just to do the same thing that got him banned. Either he doesn't want to lesrn or he's simply incapable of learning. Either way, nobody likes this vicious cycle and it's going to end in a perma at this rate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

like I'm going to take the bait and feed the drama

like I said I'm no longer going to do or say anything that could remotely help mffa get better

my final word is mffa should be a case study for webmasters : how corrupt mods are going to destroy your site without fail

 

mffa used to be one of my fav sites second only to mugen archive and it has become this

the saddest part is the driving force of the corruption was just one guy , that pigeon  is alone responsible for the downfall of mffa for dragging it into the war to help his friends at mfg and md

 

perhaps rmh was a bit too inexperienced to see though it, curious to know if @Ryon would have let all this shit happen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now