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[Gen6][Meta] UnderUbers discussion (05/09: Tier Shifts)


RicePigeon

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Taking this opportunity to add some new faces to the Singles UUbers viability ranks:

Altered Forme: Added to B

  • See above post for reasoning on Giratina-A

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/009-m.png: Added to B

  • Decent Rapid Spinner in a metagame with very few offensive hazard removers. Mega Launcher boosted Dragon Pulse allows it to check Reshiram and Palkia, OHKOing offensive variants of both with Stealth Rock up, and fears only a Choice Specs Thunderbolt from Palkia. Dark Pulse lets it beat spinblockers, including Giratina-A. Also scares Mega Mawile with Scald burns. Flat out loses to Greninja and Azumarill, and has a bit of a four moveslot syndrome where it needs to decide if it wants drop Dragon Pulse (loses to Reshiram and Palkia) or Ice Beam (loses to Mega Altaria), as Dark Pulse, Rapid Spin, and Scald/Hydro Pump are more or less mandatory. Also has no recovery to keep it afloat and easy to wear down.

530.png: Added to C

  • Another spinner, as it can actually beat non-Scarf Reshiram as long as it has a Choice Scarf or Sand Rush boost under its belt. However, Tyranitar being banned really hurts it, so it has to rely on either Hippowdon or manual sand to get Sand Rush going, or has to stick to Choice Scarf, and locking yourself into Rapid Spin is never a good thing. However, it can't really do much to Giratina-A without a Swords Dance, and even then it risks being burned. May move up to B if it proves to be more effective than I'm making it out to be, as it does check Mega Mawile.

121.png: Added to C

  • More or less outclassed by Greninja, and can't do anything in the face of the entirely of S-rank, but it at least has the niche of being able to provide Rapid Spin support, and can 2HKO Giratina-A on the switch-in with Analytic Life Orb, so it's not dead weight against it.

227.png: Added to B

  • Comes in two flavors; Spiker or Defogger, and has the benefit of walling any Mega Mawile that lacks Fire Punch or Focus Punch, even if you run Specially Defensive. For offensive teams, you could even use it as a Custap Lead set, but Deoxys-D is generally better suited for the role of setting up multiple entry hazards.

485.png: Added to B

  • Like Skarmory, it can check any Mega Mawile that lacks Focus Punch, except it can threaten it offensively with Fire Blast or Lava Plume. Sets up Stealth Rock, and even checks some A-rank threats like Mega Charizard X and Mega Altaria (lacking Earthquake). Has a poor matchup against S-rank otherwise, and even some A rank threaten it.
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Some potential discussion points for rankings:

563.png: B or C

  • Thanks to Mummy and Will-o-Wisp, it provides a soft check to Mega Mawile, as well as any other physical attacker that is reliant on its ability, such as Azumarill and Mega Charizard X. Ghost typing allows it to spinblock in a meta where offensive Defoggers are scarce, but faces some competition from Giratina-A in this regard.

625.png: A or B

  • Theres no denying Bisharp hits hard, and can even revenge kill many weakened threats. Defog may be scarce on offensive teams, but nothing is scarier than giving Bisharp a free +2 from a mispredicted play, putting pressure on defense and balance to hold off on Defog. Btw, did I mention it can 2HKO physically defensive Giratina-A?
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395.png: Possibly B

  • Empoleon has all the tools it needs to be successful in UUbers. Specially defensive sets avoids a 2HKO from any Palkia that lacks Earth Power, while also comfortably taking on any Greninja that lacks Low Kick. Can Defog or set up Stealth Rock, and running Scald allows it to keep physical attackers like Mega Mawile and Azumarill in check.
    Notable moves: Scald, Hydro Pump, Flash Cannon, Stealth Rock, Defog, Toxic, Grass Knot, Hidden Power [Fire]
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395.png: Possibly B

  • Empoleon has all the tools it needs to be successful in UUbers. Specially defensive sets avoids a 2HKO from any Palkia that lacks Earth Power, while also comfortably taking on any Greninja that lacks Low Kick. Can Defog or set up Stealth Rock, and running Scald allows it to keep physical attackers like Mega Mawile and Azumarill in check.
    Notable moves: Scald, Hydro Pump, Flash Cannon, Stealth Rock, Defog, Toxic, Grass Knot, Hidden Power [Fire]

Scald is almost a life saver to good amount water-type that don't have good Physical def.  Emplolean can really use that benefit against fighter-types that use thunderpunch.

Oh by the way I had to redo my password in PKSD but Im under the user name Noobtron so let me know if you want us to do some battle testing. Rice :goodmood:

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Made some changes to the Viability list:

563.png: Added to C

  • While being a spinblocker that can also check Mega Mawile is nice, it has to choose between having no offensive presence or losing to the things it's supposed to check. Also faces stiff competition from Giratina-A.

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/212-m.png: Added to A

  • I know I didn't discuss Mega Scizor all that much prior to now, but Mega Scizor does bring some good qualities to UUbers. Aside from having access to Defog, it can check Mega Mawile, Mega Altaria, Azumarill, both Deoxys formes, and cripple Blissey & Giratina-A with Superpower and Knock Off, respectively. Under the right situations it can always use Bullet Punch to revenge kill, and can stomach a hit from Greninja if it lacks Hidden Power [Fire].

395.png: Added to B

  • See above post for reasoning on Empoleon.

625.png: Added to B

  • See above post for reasoning on Bisharp. It feels more like a B-rank mon at the moment but I'm not entirely against moving it up to A if more people can prove its effectiveness. If anything, the lack of offensive Defoggers in the tier is the only thing keeping it from A, imo.
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Some discussion points to focus on in regards to rankings:

625.png: Nominating for B -> A

  • No doubt that Bisharp can hit hard, and punishes the use of Defog with a free +2 Attack boost. However, with little to no offensive Defog users in the tier, Rapid Spin appears to be the more suitable form of hazard control. Nonetheless, for those Balance & Defensive teams that do use Defog, Bisharp can easily dismantle them.

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/003-m.png: Nominating for adding to B

  • Mega Venusaur can check Mega Mawile as long as it hasn't acquired any Swords Dance boosts, and also checks a plethora of other threats in the tier, including Greninja (without Extrasensory), Mega Altaria, Azumarill, and Mega Scizor. However, it has poor matchup against Reshiram, Palkia, both Deoxys formes, both Mega Charizards and Landorus-I, and loses to Greninja if Greninja is carrying Extrasensory.

Therian Forme: Nominating for adding to A or B

  • Landorus-T can check Mega Mawile, which is always nice, and also provides the team with a reliable way of setting up Stealth Rock. Can also provide slow or fast U-turns, depending on whether or not it opts to use a Choice Scarf, both of which have their uses on different team builds. It naturally outspeeds and KOs Reshiram, and with a Choice Scarf, can also revenge kill both Mega Charizards, Greninja, and Deoxys-N. Being dead weight against Palkia hurts it though, and using Landorus-T means being unable to utilize Landorus-I.

213.png: Nominating for adding to B or C

  • The lack of Latios and Latias in the tier means that Sticky Web has gained a new lease on life. The only notable hazard removers immune to Sticky Web are defensive Defog users such as Skarmory, Zapdos, and Mandibuzz, all of which never see use on offensive teams except for possible Custap Berry Skarmory, which never runs Defog. Shuckle also provides Stealth Rock support, which is handy for any team. However, even with the support Shuckle provides in UUbers, it has zero offensive presence, and a poor matchup against all of S rank and majority of A rank, which warrants a C rank if anything, but I'm not against putting it in B just for the support it provides against offense teams.

 

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Some more changes to the Viability list:

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/003-m.png: Added to B

  • See above post for reasoning on Mega Venusaur.

036.png: Added to C

  • Useful for teams that need a Cleric/Wishpasser, or a general status absorber, but has a poor matchup against all of S and the majority of A. It does, however, use Giratina-A as setup fodder.

642.png: Added to A

  • Can use Prankster Thunder Wave to stop fast Pokemon like Greninja and Deoxys-N in their tracks (though ends up sacing itself in the process against these two), as well as setup sweepers like Mega Altaria and Mega Charizard X, plus can be a threatening Pokemon in its own right with a Nasty Plot under its belt, taking on the likes of Azumarill, Mega Charizard Y, and Landorus-I.

Wash Rotom: Added to B

  • Checks Mega Mawile with Will-o-Wisp, along with Mega Altaria, Azumarill, and Mega Scizor, but no reliable recovery outside of Pain Split and a poor matchup against 3/4 of S rank limits its use. However, the ability to provide safe switches with a slow Volt Switch can be very useful for offensive teams.

 

Discussion points remain the same as before (Bisharp, Lando-T, and Shuckle), but with a new addition;

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/006-mx.png: Nominating for move from A -> S

  • Everyone knows how threatening a sweeper this thing can be in OU. It naturally outspeeds Reshiram, speed ties with Palkia, and can even take on Mega Mawile. Once boosted, nothing wants to take a hit from it except Mega Altaria, Azumarill, and Heatran, though the former can be worn down with repeated hits.
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Some changes:

[IMG]: Added to B

  • Able to harass Reshiram, Palkia, and Greninja, Azumarill, Mega Charizard X, and a few others. Doesn't have that great a matchup against stall though, which is why I opted to place it in B instead of A.

Therian Forme: Added to A

  • See last few posts on reasoning behind Landorus-T. May move down to B down the road if it proves to not be as effective as I initially believed.

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/006-mx.png: Moved up from A -> S

  • See last post for reasoning. Honestly I'm still on the fence of wether Zard X is truly on the same level as the rest of S rank, so it can always move down.

[IMG]: Added to A

  • Has just enough speed and typing to take on 4/5 of S rank, losing only to Greninja and +1 Mega Charizard X. With Swords Dance, it has very few safe switch-ins, as it can even 2HKO physically defensive Giratina-A. Without Mega Sableye or Mega Diancie, it can also serve as an effective Stealth Rock setter as well, though faces competition from the Deoxys formes for that role. Nice all-around wallbreaker for offense and balance teams.
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Nominating some more newcomers to the UUbers viability ranks;

186.png: Nominating for A or B

  • Anyone who's played OU since Gen 5 knows what Politoed does; sets up Rain with Drizzle. Rain is a powerful playstyle in OU, but in UUbers it becomes even more threatening when stuff like Palkia and Greninja exists. In fact, Choice Specs Palkia in the rain 2HKOs standard Blissey;
    252 SpA Choice Specs Palkia Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey in Rain: 288-339 (44.1 - 51.9%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    But making Palkia even more threatening isn't the only thing Drizzle does. It more or less puts a dampener on Mega Charizard X and Reshiram, making Flare Blitz and Blue Flare much weaker, and defensively removes Mega Mawile's weakness to Fire, rendering only Ground attacks capable of hurting it, while also allowing Mega Scizor to avoid an OHKO from Fire attacks that would normally be 4x effective against it. Despite being the cornerstone of rain teams, Politoed doesn't accomplish much on its own, as its base stats are pretty subpar otherwise.

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/260-m.png: Nominating for B rank

  • Every Rain team needs a Swift Swimmer. Mega Swampert may not be the best choice since it doesn't get the speed boost until the next turn after it Mega Evolves, but is sturdy enough to hold its own in UUbers; OHKOing Greninja, Mega Charizard X, Mega Mawile, and Reshiram, and 2HKOing Palkia with Earthquake. Even though it gets no boosts, it can still prove effective as a late game cleaner.

232.png: Nominating for D or Unranked

  • The Answer insisted that I take Donphan into consideration due to "untapped potential" in UUbers after our last match. While Donphan provides helpful Rapid Spin support, it has to choose between having no offensive presence or losing to the thing its supposed to check due to no defensive investment. Life Orb set may work in theory, but without reliable recovery, Donphan is going to get worn down pretty quickly. To be frank, I can't think of a situation where I would use Donphan over Excadrill on a UUbers team. Ice Shard on Donphan isn't as powerful as you might think, even those Pokemon that are 4x weak to it aren't OHKOed and some even avoid a 2HKO.

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/015-m.png: Nominating for B rank

  • Mega Beedrill is one of the fastest viable Pokemon allowed in UUbers, outsped only by Deoxys-N in terms of base speed. Its powerful Adaptability boosted U-turns leave a dent in just about anything, allowing it to 2HKO Palkia, Mega Charizard X, and Reshiram with Poison Jab, outspeed and OHKO Greninja, and puts a huge pressure on offensive teams in general. However, it has a very bad matchup against Mega Mawile and Mega Scizor. Furthermore, because base forme Beedrill only has 70 base speed compared to Mega Beedrill's 145, it's forced to run Protect on turn 1, leaving it susceptible to a free switch or a turn of setup.

Previous Pokemon that still need discussion:
625.png213.png

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Alright so since the UUbers tier will be updated in a little more than a week, some Pokemon will become banned due to usage while others will become unbanned (heres looking at you Chansey), I'm going to introduce a rather controversial idea to expand on the metagame. Initially when I started this, the initial UUbers banlist consisted of all Arceus formes due to the fact that Arceus-Normal, the base forme, is currently banned from UUbers. Since the other Arceus formes are dependent on Arceus's held item, I naturally followed the same logic as the way Mega Evolutions are treated; if the base forme is banned, then so is the Mega Evolution. Furthermore, when it comes to the carts, all Arceus formes in Gen 6 appear as Arceus-Normal in the team preview, so it is impossible to tell which Arceus forme an opponent has until the match actually begins.

In retrospect, however, Smogon's official statistics treat each Arceus forme as a separate species, similar in vein to the Giratina formes. As such, I omitted the statistics of all Arceus formes other than Arceus-Normal for the past few months. If we add the different formes back into the equation for the past three month 1760 ladder statistics, it looks something like this;

Name    May    Jun    Jul    Avg
Arceus-Normal    40.13%    39.79%    40.97%    40.79%
Arceus-Ground    13.81%    9.76%    12.65%    12.34%
Arceus-Ghost    8.10%    12.29%    10.09%    10.28%
Arceus-Rock    7.86%    5.00%    9.35%    8.75%
Arceus-Water    4.86%    7.11%    5.78%    5.91%

Keep in mind that Smogon's cutoff for determining tiers is 3.41%, so any Arceus forme that did not reach that quota is omitted from the above. As such, if we do allow Arceus formes into UUbers, the following Arceus formes would be banned;

[IMG](Normal)[IMG](Ghost)[IMG](Ground)[IMG](Water)[IMG](Rock)

Following this, this means that come September, should the use statistic for Ubers not change, we should expect the following Pokemon to be unbanned from UUbers;

[IMG](Dark)[IMG](Fairy)[IMG](Ice)[IMG](Dragon)[IMG](Electric)[IMG](Fighting)[IMG](Grass)[IMG](Poison)[IMG](Flying)[IMG](Steel)[IMG](Bug)[IMG](Fire)[IMG](Psychic)

For those of you keeping count, that's a whopping 13 Pokemon added to UUbers. Those who have used Arceus in Ubers knows that Arceus typically fulfills one of three roles regardless of its type; physical Swords Dance sweeper, special Calm Mind attacker, or support Will-o-Wisp + Defog. Currently, UUbers has a lack of viable Defog users for offensive teams, and those on defensive teams dont quite have the bulk to stomach hits from the likes of Palkia, Reshiram, and Mega Mawile. How do you think the 13 Arceus formes will affect UUbers? Should the literal god of Pokemon shine his light upon this tier or should UUbers remain forsaken?

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For the record, until the September tier shift for UUbers occurs and we have a definitive decision regarding the Arceus formes, discussion about viability rankings should for the time being reflect the current tier as it is now, without the 13 Arceus formes (as its possible any one or more of these formes may not be allowed if they gain a surge in use).

That being said, anyone who wants to nominate anything that isnt currently up for discussion is certainly welcome to, as long as you can back up your nomination with reasoning (hint: match ups against the current S and A rank Pokemon are a good place to start).

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Very helpful </sarcasm>

Anyway, some viability updates:

 

658.png: Dropped from S to A

  • This may seem controversial, since Greninja seems like a powerhouse on paper, but the truth of the matter is that it faces competition from Deoxys-N as an all-out attacker, who not only sports dual 150 offenses, but also a much higher 150 base Speed compared to Greninja. Greninja's HP, Defense, and Sp.Defense may be higher than Deoxys-N's, but 72/67/71 defensive stats hardly makes a difference compared to 50/50/50, since they're both frail as tissue paper. Not to mention Deoxys-N also gets access to Extreme Speed, something that Greninja does not (Shadow Sneak is nice and all, but it's not going to score as many revenge kills as Deoxys-N will). Its still effective as a hazard lead, but I feel that it could possibly drop to B unless Deoxys-N rises to S. Either way, Greninja shouldn't be any higher than Deoxys-N at this point, hence why I feel A is more appropriate for it at this time.

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/015-m.png: Added to B rank

  • See above post for reasoning on Mega Beedrill.

199.png: Added to B rank

  • Assault Vest Slowking is a nice pivot into Reshiram and Palkia, tanking their attacks like a champ and avoiding the 2HKO from Draco Meteor, while regenerating its health by switching out, a useful asset to Balance and Stall teams. Physical attackers switching in risk getting burned by Scald, or in Mega Mawile's case, losing up to 75% of its health from Fire Blast. Setup sweepers like Mega Charizard X need to be wary of Dragon Tail, which forces them to switch out and lose their boosts.

213.png: Added to C rank

  • The last replay with The Answer should be justification that Shuckle has a niche in UUbers as a Sticky Web setter for Hyper Offense teams. I'm not opposed to moving Shuckle up to B, but let's have it start at C for now.

232.png: Remains Unranked

  • I'm not fully convinced of Donphan's effectiveness in UUbers or any niches that it has, if it even has any.

 

As far as discussion points go, I'm going to add three new Pokemon to the slate:

715.png: Nominating for C rank

  • Noivern has just the right amount of speed to allow it to act as a revenge killer against the most prominent threats in S rank, namely Palkia and Reshiram, both of which are OHKOed by Life Orb Draco Meteor. With a Choice Scarf it can also threaten a +1 Mega Charizard. Although its frail, it has just enough defense to live a Deoxys-N's Extremespeed and OHKO back. It can also generate offensive momentum with U-turn. Outside of handling these and a few other specific threats, however, Noivern's power is a bit underwhelming.

530.png&450.png: Nominating for B rank

  • Nominating both Excadrill and Hippowdon as a pair due to the fact that Excadrill's viability is ultimately dependent on Hippowdon's ranking. Hippowdon is the only Sand Stream user currently allowed in UUbers (with Tyranitar being banned). Excadrill is currently on the ranking list at C-rank, the thing holding it back being the lack of a reliable sand setter. With Sand Rush, Excadrill instantly becomes an offensive powerhouse, capable of ripping teams apart and with a resistance to Extreme Speed, not much in the tier can stop it. Hippowdon can provide Stealth Rocks in addition to sand, but due to its defensive nature, Hippowdon would prefer to be holding Leftovers rather than a Smooth Rock, meaning that Excadrill will only have 5 turns of Sand to work with rather than 8, not including the turn needed to switch Pokemon.

 

Pokemon that still need discussion:
625.png530.png450.png715.png186.pnghttp://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/260-m.png

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199.png: Added to B rank

  • Assault Vest Slowking is a nice pivot into Reshiram and Palkia, tanking their attacks like a champ and avoiding the 2HKO from Draco Meteor, while regenerating its health by switching out, a useful asset to Balance and Stall teams. Physical attackers switching in risk getting burned by Scald, or in Mega Mawile's case, losing up to 75% of its health from Fire Blast. Setup sweepers like Mega Charizard X need to be wary of Dragon Tail, which forces them to switch out and lose their boosts.

Alot trainers dosn't know how beneficial Assault Vest can be especially those pokemon that gets Hit hard by Sp.attackers like Alakazam, Gengar, Gardivoir, etc.

Let Metagross Hold Assault vest and that makes it an offensive and defensive tank. (unless it gets hit with 'Knock-off' then thats a downer plus painful hit on it ) :-P

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Alot trainers dosn't know how beneficial Assault Vest can be especially those pokemon that gets Hit hard by Sp.attackers like Alakazam, Gengar, Gardivoir, etc.

The only issue here is that Gengar is banned from UUbers, and I don't mean just Mega Gengar, but base form Gengar as well.

Alakazam and Mega Alakazam I don't think are going to make that much of an impact in the tier where Deoxys-N exists, who is pretty much Mega Alakazam 2.0 that doesn't take up your Mega Slot. If Alakazam does get ranked, it will probably only be Mega, and only for Trace. D rank I would think, but definitely no higher than C.

Mega Gardevoir is a different story, however.

Speaking of Metagross, I still need to test it out more in this meta in order to find the appropriate place for it. Honestly it just feels like B rank to me at the moment, since Palkia and Mega Mawile both beat it 1-on-1, and doesnt have that excellent a matchup against most of A rank.

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Some new addtions;

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/376-m.png: Added to A rank

  • Faces competition from Mega Mawile and Mega Scizor for the role of a Steel type Mega, but its power allows it to go toe-to-toe with Reshiram, Mega Altaria, Azumarill, unboosted Mega Charizard X, both Deoxys formes, both Landorus formes, and Terrakion. Mega Mawile, Bisharp, and Life Orb Palkia do give it huge problems though. Can also fulfill the role of an Agility sweeper, making it very threatening for offense teams.

625.png: Moved up from B to A rank

  • Bisharp hits hard, there's no doubt about that. It threatens the Deoxys formes, causing Deoxys-N to guess if it will be using Sucker Punch to out prioritize it or trapping it with Pursuit, and Knock Off is a clean 2HKO on Deoxys-D. Can also revenge kill weakened Reshiram, Palkia, and Mega Charizard X. Defog may not be common, but nabbing a +2 Attack from either Defiant or Swords Dance makes Bisharp alot more threatening, as many of its 2HKOs become OHKOs.

202.png: Added to B rank

  • The ability to trap and remove specific threats is a huge boon to teams. Against offense, it locks them in with Encore and then either Counters, Mirror Coats, or Destiny Bonds accordingly (especially if it has Custap Berry). Against defense, it locks them into their move with Encore, providing a free switch to a teammate who can then begin to set up. However, Wobbuffet typically only thrives on offense teams, so it can't be used on every playstyle.

715.png: Added to C rank

  • See above posts for reasoning on Noivern. The ability to revenge kill several notable threats while generating momentum is a big plus for offense teams. Obviously needs a bunch of support to do its job effectively, though.

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/065-m.png: Added to D rank

  • Heavily outclassed by Deoxys-N, which sports similar Sp.Attack, identical Speed, a much more expansive movepool, and doesn't take up your Mega Slot. The only niche Mega Alakazam has is Trace, which can be clutch in certain situations, such as against Heatran, Greninja, Sand Rush Excadrill, and Swift Swimmers such as Mega Swampert, but otherwise not worth it. May end up unranking it entirely.

 

Pokemon that still need discussion:
530.png450.png186.pnghttp://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/260-m.png

 

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I didn't have any safe switch-ins to Champ except for Hippo, and Wobb wasn't going to accomplish much in that fight anyhow aside from removing Umbreon, which I wasn't too particularly threatened by.

Though so far Excadrill sand teams seems to be more effective than I initially thought. Palkia pretty much fills many of the holes on that archtype, but gonna need more testing. I'd tempted to raise Excadrill to B at this point.

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I didn't have any safe switch-ins to Champ except for Hippo, and Wobb wasn't going to accomplish much in that fight anyhow aside from removing Umbreon, which I wasn't too particularly threatened by.

Though so far Excadrill sand teams seems to be more effective than I initially thought. Palkia pretty much fills many of the holes on that archtype, but gonna need more testing. I'd tempted to raise Excadrill to B at this point.

Cool! i hope we do more testing on Excadrill tomarrow. :-)

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Its September, and while we wait for the official Ubers use statistics to come out to determine the tier shift, I'm going to go ahead and implement the Arceus Clause into the tier:

  • Arceus Clause: Arceus may be used, but must be holding a plate item. In addition, Arceus cannot be holding the Spooky, Earth, Stone, or Splash plates.
  • The Items Stone Plate, Spooky Plate, Splash Plate, and Earth Plate are now banned.

In effect, this means that the 13 Arceus formes that were previously mentioned (Bug, Dark, Dragon, Electric, Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Flying, Grass, Ice, Poison, Psychic, & Steel) are now unbanned from UUbers.

Let's see how the metagame changes with these new additions.

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Some points for discussion I think are necessary at this point;

[IMG](Dragon): Nominating for NYR -> A

  • On paper, this thing seems like an extremely threatening sweeper/wallbreaker with Swords Dance, as Draco Plate with STAB essentially gives Outrage 216 base power, resisted only by Steels and Fairies, the former of which are handled by Earthquake and Overheat, the latter by Iron Tail. 120 base speed is pretty fast, and those few that do outspeed it have to be wary as it can always use Extremespeed to take care of the faster, offensive threats that outspeed it, so it can't be revenge killed as easily. However, it has a bit of a four moveslot syndrome here, as without Overheat it gets walled by Mega Scizor and Skarmory, without Earthquake it can't get past Heatran and Azumarill, and without ExtremeSpeed, it gets decimated by offense, so it needs a bit of support to handle what it can't cover, hence the nomination for A rank.

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/009-m.png: Nominating for drop from B -> C

  • The addition of the Arceus formes as reliable Defog users gives Mega Blastoise increased opportunity cost, especially since it takes up your Mega slot. It's also not as reliable at killing Reshiram/Palkia as I initially believed since not only is it outsped by them, but also takes a huge chunk of damage after Stealth Rocks in play.

[IMG](Steel): Nominating for NYR -> A

  • Steel has always been a good type defensively, and having a Defogger that's both immune to Toxic Spikes and resistant to Stealth Rock always helps. This thing is probably the most reliable check to Mega Mawile, as even with uninvested Sp.Attack, Judgement [Steel] 2HKOs Mega Mawile while Arceus-Steel can always burn Mega Mawile to avoid the possible 2HKO from Fire Punch variants. Could also potentially run a Calm Mind set with Judgement [Steel] and Fire Blast, but gets walled by Heatran.
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Viability ranking update. This time around the A rank will now be split into A and A+.

Additions:
[IMG](Dragon): Added to A+

  • See last post for reasoning. Its a threatening Swords Dance sweeper but has to fit all of the moves that it wants into three moveslots, which is tough.

[IMG](Fairy): Added to A

  • Basically Mega Altaria 2.0, it checks Arceus-Dragon and Palkia quite nicely, being able to outspeed the latter while burning the former. It may not have the Water and Fire resists of Mega Altaria, but Mega Altaria was never a spectacular check to Palkia and Reshiram anyway, especially when they can still 2HKO with Choice Specs.

[IMG](Steel): Added to A

  • See above post. I'm not convinced that its A+ material just yet. A should be fine for now.

450.png: Added to C

  • Soft checks Mega Mawile and Mega Charizard X and can tank a hit from Arceus-Dragon, but can't really do much to the latter otherwise. Mega Mawile can also OHKO after a Swords Dance. Aside from that, it's a decent Stealth Rock setter, but I can't really find a use for Hippowdon aside from providing sand for Excadrill. It seems to fit C at the moment, but could potentially rise to B.

Rises:
184.png: A -> A+

  • The ability to hard check Palkia and soft check Arceus-Dragon is always invaluable, it more or less combines the raw power of Mega Mawile with that of a bulky water type. I feel its above the level of the other A rank Pokemon at the moment.

Incarnate Forme: A -> A+

  • Landorus-I is a threatening Pokemon in its own right, able to wallbreak with its 101 base speed, and access to Rock Polish makes it a terrifying cleaner. Definately a cut above the rest of the A rank Pokemon.

530.png: C -> B

  • Definitely a more useful spinner than Mega Blastoise, given its ability to clean teams with Sand Rush. Hippowdon isn't too bad either.

Drops:
643.png: S -> A+

  • Reshiram's base 90 speed really lets it down sometimes. With the Arceus formes now on the loose, it struggles to keep up the pace as a wallbreaker, especially when Palkia can do the same while speed tying with other base 100 speed Pokemon.

334-m.png: A -> C

  • More or less outclassed by Arceus-Fairy, who sports higher speed and better overall bulk. May end up unranking entirely, but it does have useful resistances that Arceus-Fairy doesn't have.

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/009-m.png: B -> C

  • See above post. Defog Arceus formes give it too much competition, and has too much opportunity cost compare to the other, more useful Megas.

Removals:
http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/065-m.png: Removed from D

  • There's really no reason to use this over Deoxys-N. If this thing ever does come back onto the rankings, it should be because of Trace and nothing else, but someone is going to have to convince me that Mega Alakazam has some kind of worthwhile niche that Deoxys-N doesn't have because as of right now, it doesn't.

 

 

At this point I want to focus discussion on Pokemon currently in the B rank. If you have any Pokemon nominations that you feel fit the B rank criteria, feel free to post it.

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